Transcript of the meeting:

Good afternoon, friends.

I have allowed myself the liberty of addressing you in this way because I have indeed known many of you for years. We have met regularly during this time – perhaps not so often, but regularly nonetheless – to discuss issues, which we are here to address today.

I am very pleased that the Russian Popular Front is truly becoming a platform for discussing highly important issues in a variety of areas of the government’s work. This includes the important work with people with disabilities, and the creation of an environment that will encourage their self-expression, foster their self-confidence and allow them to feel fully functioning people.

I should mention that there are 13 million people with various disabilities in Russia, and some of them are truly remarkable people, with no exaggeration. There are athletes among them, whose achievements I greatly admire. There are many scientists, public activists, and writers – in other words, people of all different talents and occupations. Unfortunately, at the same time, I have to admit that we not only haven't yet done all that is possible in this country – we have, in fact, done very little to create the necessary conditions for people who have special needs.

As you know, we have signed the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. I am confident that it is a serious step toward creating an environment in which people with disabilities will feel more comfortable. There are several important areas here where we need to focus our attention. In fact, we began adapting Russian laws to comply with the UN Convention even before ratifying it. Overall, we will have to make over 50 amendments or introduce absolutely new provisions to the existing laws. This work is already underway.

Of course, I will return to this idea more than once. The leadership and representatives of disability organisations and other public organisations supporting people with disabilities should certainly have direct involvement in this work, as well as in other related activities. The first thing I would like to mention is, of course, something that we have, unfortunately, never paid attention to before, something that we will have to start – or have already started in some cases – creating nearly from scratch. I am referring to the creation of what are called ‘accessible environments’. We will allocate 50 billion roubles towards this purpose beginning in 2015. Is it a little or a lot? To begin with, I believe that if we use these funds wisely, people will notice a difference. And incidentally, we must be sure to work closely with disability organisations in determining how to use these funds. We understand this based on our own humble experience. You may have heard that some time ago I asked my colleagues in the government to create a ‘barrier-free environment’. These colleagues have just told me how this worked out. They began working on this concept and then showed their initial results to people from disability organisations, only to find that they needed to start over. This is certainly very telling. It’s the first step that counts, however, and I’m sure that the government will go about everything in the proper way. I would like to ask our colleagues from the Russian regions, and the municipal authorities to have all administrative buildings immediately outfitted with means of accessibility so that people with disabilities will feel comfortable in and around these buildings. This can and must be done immediately.

Another issue that I would like to address concerns the provision of jobs. This is a complicated issue, one that unfortunately is indicative of a certain moral attitude in society. Regrettably, as soon as the economic crisis began, the first thing they did at certain enterprises was to cut back on their cooperation with enterprises that employ workers with disabilities. I was simply shocked when I learnt this. But I very much hope that the positive reaction on the part of certain associations and enterprises, which restored this kind of cooperation following criticism from the government, will not be an isolated event. Clearly, in order for this to happen, the government must also take certain steps in this direction. As you know, we have introduced subsidies for enterprises under all kinds of ownership to create jobs for people with disabilities. These were initially in the amount of 30,000 roubles, but we later increased them to 50,000 roubles. In this way, 12,800 new jobs for people with disabilities were created with governmental support in 2010 and during the first six months of 2011.

The amount of federal funding for the purchase of rehabilitation equipment was increased by 25% this year to a total of 15.5 billion roubles. It’s very important here that these government funds should be used to acquire genuinely high-quality equipment. I would very much like to see Russian enterprises finally starting to manufacture high-quality equipment that people with disabilities need. As you are probably aware, in a few days the German company Otto Bock will begin manufacturing a line of wheelchairs for people with disabilities on the AvtoVAZ premises. This is a good example of the way in which the modern rehabilitation industry in Russia should develop. I would very much like to see this effort continued.

By expanding access to opportunities for work and increasing the mobility of disabled people, the state is in no way relieving itself of its commitment to provide them with comprehensive support, by which I mean an increase in benefits and social pension allowances. They have been modest so far, but we have increased disability pensions by 8.8% since February 1, and social benefits by 10.3% since April 1. Beginning on January 1, 2012, in addition to an appropriate pension, we plan to introduce monthly monetary compensation to people who are disabled as a result of injury sustained during military service. As of today, their benefits amount to around 21,000 roubles.

In addition, the government has made a decision to provide people with disabilities with free return travel on brand-name trains to treatment locations. Before, you know, this service only covered travel by regular trains. At the same time, in order for people with disabilities to be able to live normal lives, simply increasing their pensions is not enough, though it is important. It’s not even enough to remove technical or administrative barriers. It’s clear that we need to work with people from an early age, while they are still in primary school. I estimate that by 2016 the number of schools equipped to deliver education to children with disabilities alongside children without disabilities will increase more than eightfold – from 1,200 to 10,000. Unfortunately, today such schools account for a mere 2.5% of the total number of schools.

Of course, higher education institutions and universities should be equipped accordingly. We have scheduled a meeting with heads of higher education institutions and will certainly discuss this issue. Of course, we need to support (and we will continue to do so) public organisations of disabled people. This year, we increased the amount of support to 950 million roubles. As I said, we will support related public organisations, not just organisations of disabled people, but also those that directly work with disabled people, volunteer organisations, and so on.

This is what I wanted to say first. Thank you very much for your time and patience… Now, I suggest that we move to the wide range of issues that you consider to be important and worthy of discussion. Go ahead.

Vladimir Krupennikov (member of the Public Chamber’s Commission on Social Issues and Demographic Policies and Chairman of the Regional Public Organisation of Disabled People, Strategy, in Moscow): Mr Putin, since I am the first to speak, I would like to thank you for the tremendous work that the Russian government has been conducting recently to create an adequate environment for disabled persons and to improve their living standards.

I am a member of the Public Chamber, and I would like today to voice certain issues that were raised in the Public Chamber, that concern the solution of problems that affect disabled persons.

You have just said that you will continue support organisations of disabled people. A problem involved in supporting small, local organisations of disabled people, rather than national non-governmental organisations, has been raised many times at hearings in the Public Chamber. The concern is that a huge number of disabled persons are members of these organisations, which carry out large-scale, important work. Unfortunately though, these organisations are too often teetering on the brink of extinction.

The problem is, many local budgets can only support financing the programmes of regional organisations on a competitive basis. And these regional organisations continue to survive by winning government grants and competitions. It is therefore very difficult to work systematically. Here is a simple example: our organisation is involved in providing distance education in the field of IT-technology to disabled people in conjunction with the Faculty of Computational Mathematics and Cybernetics at Moscow State University. Students follow a several-year course: they finish the first year, then the second. But I am not sure whether I will be able to win a government grant tomorrow, whether I will be able to find the funds so that those who finished first two years will be able to study in the third year.

Here is another example. My programme is part of the state programme for the social adaptation of disabled people, but the programme is once again put up for tender in connection with Law No. 94. A raider from a completely different region, not even from Moscow, takes part in the tender, lowers the price and wins; and this person may not even understand anything about the problems of disabled people, and may not care about them at all. For this person, it's important simply to obtain the funds and then start blackmailing organisations of disabled persons. This is why I believe that the organisations of disabled persons that I’m speaking about… Obviously, it is dangerous to support absolutely everyone: there are a lot of crooks out there who hide behind these disabled persons' organisations. But the local authorities are well aware of the organisations that are actually doing work and that are truly fulfilling an important mission. And these organisations should be provided with help and support. Creating an accessible environment is an extremely important task, since it can…

Vladimir Putin: Excuse me, Mr Kupennikov, but I have a question for you: how you propose arranging this work in a way such that there are no raiders, as you said, who come for the money and then sell their rights to budget finance – such that the administrative structures have no desire to embezzle funds…

Vladimir Krupennikov: I think this work should be set up under the principle of social non-profit organisations. I think that we may need to create a separate social basis of non-government organisations for disabled persons, while the basis of social non-profit organisations is meanwhile being created. We all know each other, we are all perfectly aware of the organisations that work, and how they work. Public councils of disabled persons within city and regional power structures can decide which organisations should actually have access to such privileges, and which organisations are doing something wrong.

Vladimir Putin: If I understand you correctly, you propose establishing such a council and giving it the right to distribute these resources?

Vladimir Krupennikov: I think that it should at least act as an advisory body under regional leadership.

Vladimir Putin: Let’s think about that. The thing is, we did something similar in certain industries, such as the distribution of funds for cinematography. This field has little to do with the issue we are discussing, but, the mechanisms are the same nonetheless: a structure has even been established which has been given the right to distribute state funds. Let’s think about it.

Vladimir Krupennikov: The next issue, which is very important, concerns technical means of rehabilitation. This refers to means that compensate for a person’s physical disabilities. And if the means of technical rehabilitation have been chosen properly, disabled persons often obtain more freedom – the freedom to move, study and work. I realise that in connection with the budget deficit, federal law No. 351, On Amending Federal Laws On Veterans and On Social Protection of Disabled Persons, went into effect in February. And this law overturned the 100% compensation for means of technical rehabilitation that a person acquired himself. I believe… No, not exactly me but many disability support organisations (we have held a number of hearings on this issue) do believe that there are certain types of rehabilitation equipment which include, in my view, prosthetic devices, braces, some types of wheelchairs, sophisticated orthopaedic shoes, sophisticated clothing that can have special individual characteristics which have not been included in the grading of rehabilitation equipment proposed by the Health and Social Development Ministry or which are simply lacking from the product offering. When somebody purchases a rehabilitation device on his own, well, yes, he or she will get compensation, but this compensation will amount to the price of this rehabilitation device on bidding (the bidding price is always lower than the market price). This will work against the disabled. Secondly, this bidding on this rehabilitation device, convenient for the disabled, might not be held, and here comes a situation in which the disabled is denied an individual rehabilitation device. I suggest that we create a list of special rehabilitation devices that disabled people could purchase, and carefully monitor this policy to guard against abuse, which had occurred prior to the adoption of these amendments.

Vladimir Putin: What should we do to prevent abuse? We should introduce a universal system, you see. This is such a delicate sphere – I am perfectly aware of what I am saying – but we ought to have a universal system, the same system for everybody and also transparent. If the current system fails to work, how shall we introduce the system that you propose? Allow people to buy everything they want and then bill them?

Vladimir Krupennikov: No, certainly not. First, they should include all their future purchases in their individual rehabilitation programme. And this is a problem, too. Many doctors know very little about rehabilitation devices and know nothing about the product offering. When I was examined by a professional medical expert commission, the deputy chief doctor said to me, “They try to turn us into technical workers. I do not understand what you are talking about. I am a doctor. I know about your spine, about your joints. I know how to treat your diseases. But I have only a vague idea of what kind of a wheelchair, or what crutches you need.” Do you see my point? It is very important that the Accessible Environment state programme include a reform of the Medical and Social Assessment because the Medical and Social Assessment must employ doctors specialising in physical therapy who are familiar with rehabilitation equipment and who can say which device is good for a disabled person and which might be injurious.

Vladimir Putin: And currently there are no such doctors there, is that right?

Vladimir Krupennikov: The fact is that this is all happening at the medical level. In my example, the deputy chief doctor in Moscow …

Vladimir Putin: I understood you. Ms Golikova (addressing Healthcare Minister Tatyana Golikova), please attend to this.

Tatyana Golikova: We have such experts, just an insufficient number of them. Therefore this is one of the basic elements of the Accessible Environment state programme; and now during the programme’s first year a pilot project will be conducted in several regions.

Vladimir Putin: In three regions – in Tatarstan, the Tver Region and…

Remark: And in Saratov.

Vladimir Putin: And in Saratov, yes.

Tatyana Golikova: And in these regions we shall work on approaches to updating the Medical and Social Assessment, and then we shall introduce them throughout Russia. 

Vladimir Putin: We must do this by all means. I completely agree with Mr Krupennikov. Excuse me.

Vladimir Krupennikov: And one more thing, Mr Putin. I want to ask you about one more thing, although it does not seem to be a very popular issue – returning cars to the list of rehabilitation equipment, at least for severely disabled former army servicemen. And possibly, in the future, a gradual reintroduction of cars for those disabled people who have no legs or whose legs are completely paralyzed. When I became disabled in the army, for me a car was a window to the world. I could study, I could work. At that time I could not afford a car with what funds I had. I think that the people who were injured defending their homeland, while serving in the Interior Ministry, Emergency Situations Ministry, in the army, they have earned a car. Taking cars off the list of rehabilitation equipment in 2005 was not simply the loss of a car. Many disabled people can afford them and purchase cars. What is the problem? There are no more driving schools where disabled can learn to drive. How can they obtain a driving license? It is practically impossible. Normal driving schools have no special motorcars with hand controls for the disabled. Installing hand controls is a very important problem. It is a very complicated procedure. Some firms install hand controls. A disabled person has to go to this firm, install hand controls, then drive to the road police department, take a formal request for an expert report and drive to the NAMI (Central Automobile and Engine Research Institute), receive a resolution that his car is legally equipped with hand controls, drive to the road police department, and register his car. And it is necessary to remember that while he drives, he is breaking the law, because he is using unregistered hand controls. It is necessary to simplify things, to license special car service centres to install hand controls. And such centres must guarantee that the road police department will register a disabled person’s car.

Vladimir Putin: Mr Krupennikov, we shall surely consider this issue of cars. I shall instruct our departments and ministries accordingly – the Finance Ministry, the Economic Development Ministry, the Health Ministry. We will surely attend to this issue. I promise you. As for simplification, Mr Kiryanov (deputy interior minister), if you can say right now, do say, if you cannot, then submit your proposals to the government within ten days. Please do.   

Viktor Kiryanov: Good, we shall submit all our proposals. But today, if we say that the car for this category [disabled people] will be a government-provided car and it will be specified what car… The car designer and producer must produce the necessary equipment for the car and modify the car.

Vladimir Putin: You see, some will get a government car, while others will possibly buy them themselves. Mr Krupeninnikov is absolutely right: it is not permissible to send people moving about town because of these purely administrative obstacles. Even in business, we have done our best to create a one-window system, so that an individual could resolve all issues in one office, including taxes, registration and other formalities. But in this case it depends only on the authorities and administrative agencies – they should create normal conditions for people so that they can solve all their problems in one place at once.

Viktor Kiryanov: I’ll work on it and report the results.

Vladimir Krupennikov: Mr Putin, to continue on this subject, I would like to say a few words about rest areas on highways. I have had a chance to drive around Europe, where they have rest areas every 50 km that are equipped with restrooms for disabled people. Unfortunately, this isn’t the case in Russia, but I believe we should take this into account when we build roads in Russia. The rest areas in Europe are also conveniently equipped with baby changing stations. There must be rest areas and restrooms for people with disabilities. 

The availability of disabled parking spaces is also a huge problem. Fortunately, we have finally adopted a law that stipulates tougher sanctions against legal entities that violate parking regulations and individuals who park their vehicles in disabled zones. Unfortunately, it’s being poorly enforced.  Disabled parking is almost always taken up by unauthorised vehicles.

Let me give you an example. We filed a complaint to the president that the disabled parking spaces outside MEGA-Khimki are being systematically used by unauthorised vehicles and pavement markings are barely visible. As a TV Tsentr presenter, I asked a film crew to go there. We saw that all disabled parking spaces were indeed taken up by unauthorised vehicles. I went to see the director but he wasn’t available, so I spoke with his deputy. I asked him: “What’s going on here? You are essentially a European company and would never do anything like that in Europe.” The pavement markings are very clear there and each space is marked with a blue disabled sign. Yet you can’t see a single car displaying a disabled permit; there’s no way a driver with disabilities will ever be able to park here.

This is a big problem and I have a suggestion. Could we perhaps hold a disabled parking awareness month? We have had similar awareness months such as School is Out or Clean Automobile. Perhaps, we should also hold a disabled parking awareness month. Most importantly, we should promote it, so that people know that it’s happening.

After all, why do these problems arise in the first place? Unfortunately, society is often hostile to people with disabilities. We need to promote a friendly attitude towards physically challenged people using mass media, social advertising, inclusive education and special events at schools and kindergartens, where children of all levels of physical ability could get together and have fun. This attitude should be instilled from an early age, and people should learn to empathise with disability from childhood. Unfortunately, before society learns to live with disabled people side by side, there’s no point talking about integration, since this is a two-way road. Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you. Regarding disabled parking, indeed, we used to have very low fines, just 200 roubles for parking in disabled spaces. The fine has been increased to 5,000 roubles recently. I hope this will be more effective. However, holding something along the lines of an awareness month and putting things in order is a good idea. Mr Kiryanov, go ahead.

Viktor Kiryanov: Mr Putin, we have already discussed this. We will be happy to support it. We are constantly tackling this issue as part of our regular administrative work. Over 1,000 drivers who committed this violation were subject to fines this year. And we will continue this effort.

Vladimir Putin: Agreed. You too should participate in this. Go there and see what’s going on. Thank you.

Mr Vshivtsev, please.

Vladimir Vshivtsev (vice president of the Red Banner of Labour All-Russian Association for the Blind): Mr Putin, let me first thank you for the opportunity to participate in this meeting. I would like to say that the All-Russian Association for the Blind has approved the idea of creating the Popular Front and has held over 80 meetings in 52 Russian regions attended by over 1,500 active members of our organisation. They discussed problems related to everyday life of visually impaired people. We had heated debates and came up with over 100 proposals suggested for inclusion in the Popular Front programme. These proposals have been analysed, put together and sent to you and the Popular Front’s headquarters. I would like to briefly outline some of them.

First is the vitally important issue of ratifying the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. We would like to see this convention ratified as soon as possible. In anticipation of its ratification, together with the Ministry of Healthcare and Social Development, we are considering proposals to introduce amendments to the Russian legislation to make it consistent with the stipulations of the convention. Many of the changes proposed by us have been accepted by the ministries, and we are grateful to the Ministry of Healthcare and Social Development for its efforts.

Second, the Accessible Environment government programme is currently being implemented. It is very effective in integrating disabled people in society and, accordingly, we would like people with disabilities to be more active in its implementation not only at the level of public and expert councils, but in the production of informational materials. Why? Because our organisations have extensive experience in that area.

Third, employment for the disabled and support to companies. Using this opportunity, I would like to thank you personally for your attention to these issues and the actual assistance provided to the companies operated by the All-Russian Association for the Blind. Your meetings with the head of our organisation have made it possible to stabilise the situation at the enterprises run by the All-Russian Association for the Blind that have contracts with the car-making industry.

So far, we have met with representatives of the Ministry of Economic Development, Ministry of Industry and Trade and heads of car-making plants. We have certain ideas that will be most likely included in the long-term agreements. In other words, the development outlook is quite promising.

There are many problems, including quotas, the enforcement of law No. 94 and compensation of losses incurred by enterprises employing persons with disabilities and so on. Certainly, it is very difficult to cover all these problems at one meeting, and we hope to discuss them in greater depth at the upcoming meeting we have scheduled with you. We know that this meeting will be attended by heads of Russian organisations for people with disabilities, and these problems will be raised there. Our organisations will submit their proposals that are now being discussed with the ministries and departments in the run-up to this meeting.

Fourth, we would like to ask for your support of what we think is an important social project. Two years ago, the organisations for disabled people in the Chechen Republic proposed building a full-service rehab centre in Grozny to treat disabled people of all categories in the Chechen Republic and other regions of the North Caucasus Federal District. This initiative was supported by the head of the republic, Ramzan Kadyrov.

The project is being implemented on the premises of an enterprise formerly operated by the All-Russian Association for the Blind and has been duly agreed with our organisation. The construction work is nearing completion, and they are now looking into purchasing equipment. This is a one-of-a-kind facility, because it will go beyond mere rehab services and professional training and provide a venue for social, cultural and sports events. Plans are in place to set up a production site where disabled people will get a chance to receive professional training and manufacture goods that will be sold on the market. However, two issues must be addressed before we can do so. This rehab centre should be given a proper status at least in the North Caucasus Federal District and, secondly, it should receive financial assistance.

Fifth and last, the issue of compensating expenses involved in the upkeep of guide dogs. Today, this allowance amounts to 10,000 roubles per year, and it hasn’t been revised over the past five years. We know that the Ministry of Healthcare and Social Development has drafted a resolution on increasing this amount to 16,000 roubles with annual adjustments. We ask you to support this resolution. In conclusion, I would like to note that the government and the disability organisations have been meeting regularly over the past few years, which has had a positive impact on adopting decisions that affect the quality of life of people with disabilities. Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you, Mr Vshivtsev. We will resolve the problem with guide dogs. How much money would that need?

Tatyana Golikova: Mr. Putin, the sums concerned are fairly small. As was correctly noted, that we propose to set the amount at 16,900 plus annual adjustments for inflation. But the Finance Ministry’s current position is that there is no need to automatically include this annual adjustment in the regulation, and that it should instead be considered when the budget is being drafted. It would be appropriate for us to decide today that we will introduce an annual adjustment for inflation due to the fairly modest sum concerned.

Vladimir Putin:  Mr. Siluanov, please.

Anton Siluanov (Deputy Minister of Finance): In reality, this is just a misunderstanding. The total sum is 8 million roubles…

Vladimir Putin: So what is there to discuss?

Anton Siluanov: Of course it was simply a misunderstanding.

Vladimir Putin: Let’s consider the matter dealt with.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: Mr. Putin, there is another question about the centre...

Vladimir Putin: We will certainly look into that issue. Mr. Kadyrov (Ramzan Kadyrov – head of the Chechen Republic) and I will have to discuss the sums involved and more concretely, the type of equipment.

Tatyana Golikova: Mr. Putin, the construction cost is 280 million roubles. The construction work is really in its final stages. Yet there is another issue. Perhaps it would make sense for you to issue an instruction for the head of the republic to clarify permits and completed design plans, because as of today, we are unable to obtain the necessary paperwork we need to have a clear picture of what these issues are.

Vladimir Putin: They will expedite the process. These are disciplined guys, they will expedite the process.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: Ms. Golikova, the documentation is ready; we are consulting the government, the deputy prime minister who oversees the work of this section, so work is ongoing. What's most interesting is that we coordinate all this work. Why? Because we, of course, have an enhanced understanding of the accessibility issue.

Vladimir Putin: Certainly, the documentation is needed. It will not be possible without the requisite documents.

Remark: Indeed.

Vladimir Putin: I am certain that it will be done, and that it will be done with utmost alacrity. I will definitely speak with him, with Ramzan. But this is somewhere it is really needed. I do not doubt that. Unfortunately...

Vladimir Vshivtsev: I can give you the numbers. In the North Caucasus Federal District there are just 18,000 visually impaired individuals who are members of our organisation.

Vladimir Putin: I see. Mr. Vshivtsev, we will be sure to examine the issue and identify avenues of support.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: We should decide the status. On the status, Ms. Golikova, later ...

Tatyana Golikova: That's not a problem. This organisation, in essence, is a branch of the National Society for the Blind. If they decide on a local level, then we will gladly back their decision up.

Vladimir Putin: You should offer them some advice, they’ll take it.

Tatyana Golikova: Good.

Vladimir Putin: Then that's settled.

Mr Vshivtsev, I was glad to hear that the automotive industry has reacted positively to our feedback on how to work with organisations for disabled people that supply the industry with assembly parts. We can see a positive shift, and I would like to direct your attention to the conversation I had with the organisations' management. When I first asked them whether the spare parts assembled by individuals with disabilities were worse than those assembled by others, their response was "No". And that's speaking objectively; they are in no way subpar. So why are you terminating their contracts? Because that's the easiest thing to do. But they have reacted and reacted positively, that's very good. Mr. Vshivtsev, I have the following question. Do you know if in Moscow there is...

Vladimir Vshivtsev: A call-centre?

Vladimir Putin: Yes, a call-centre.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: No, that is an independent organisation and has nothing to do with us. Certainly, some time ago I met with the call-centre’s management and spoke with them about the fact that if such an approach is taken, the system itself will not function. Why? Because it is all very well to set your aspirations high, but the volume of work completed does not produce a yield that covers the expenses. Salaries were seriously inflated to begin with.

Vladimir Putin: What's important is that the business owners are themselves not individuals with limited abilities.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: No, they are not.

Vladimir Putin: They started it up, took out loans, bought some equipment.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: Mr. Putin, we have repeatedly stated that it is currently more efficient to use the existing base, since the issues of creating jobs at other companies... I believe that we are not morally prepared, the society at large is not ready to accept individuals with disabilities. Why? Because there is a concern that hiring an individual with disabilities will lead to a great many problems, problems that our entrepreneurs do not want to deal with. At the same time, the experience accumulated by public organisations that run their own production lines is undoubtedly valuable. 

Vladimir Putin: That is correct. Here we have a pre-existing enterprise. The Moscow mayor informed me that he is now involved, and hopefully the business will survive. Ms. Gurtskaya, I believe you also wanted to say something. Please go ahead.

Diana Gurtskaya: Mr. Putin, friends. First, I would like to pose a question as to what I personally can do for the Popular Front, for the nation, taking advantage of this unique platform for dialogue between the authorities and society? I apologise for my nerves. I am not a politician, I am not participating in the primaries, but if my humble contribution is needed, I will always stand by you, Mr. Putin. The issue, however, that I would like to raise pertains to the enforcement of the laws that have already been passed. Certainly, in the case of the Health Ministry, it is easier, because Ms. Golikova is not just a minister; she is a sincerely compassionate individual who listens with her heart.

Vladimir Putin: Finally somebody praised her, others just attack.

Diana Gurtskaya: But it’s the truth. She addresses every concern we bring to her attention. In other government agencies things are a lot more difficult. For almost a year I have tried to enrol a little boy, Milan Shubin from Kotlas, at a state care facility for the visually impaired in St Petersburg. I just want to say that there are no such facilities in the Arkhangelsk Region. According to some regulations, his parents may select any state care facility, while others say he may not be enrolled in a Moscow or St Petersburg facility without having first registered as a local resident. It is impossible to break down the wall of indifference, the bureaucratic approach taken by the local authorities! But even in these cases we must not go to the other extreme, to a world of reserved spaces, artificial quotas and benefits, special priorities on party lists, and so on, since we have all learned what can result if the visually impaired employees of a call-centre go on hunger strike, or take the case of the National Society for the Blind’s House of Culture night club.    

We should be treated like equals and valued based on our professional abilities. Believe me, our people are not indifferent. On October 17, 2011 my colleagues and I will hold the second international talent festival for visually impaired young performers; we have resolved the financial and organisational issues. We do not need money, we are not asking for money, let’s just do it as part of our work with the Front.

Mr Putin, five years ago I invited you to attend my concert, but you are a very busy man. Now I am inviting you not to my concert but to one by Viktoria and Valeria Artyomov. You have done a great deal to help these twins, as well as other performers who do have disabilities but who also have dreams. Together we are strong. I wish you success, and may God keep you.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you very much. When is the event set for? October?

Diana Gurtskaya: October 17.

Vladimir Putin: October 17?

Diana Gurtskaya: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Will the girls perform there, too?

Diana Gurtskaya: Yes, of course.

Vladimir Putin: Have they moved house already?

Diana Gurtskaya: Yes, they have. I’ve talked to Dad. They are overjoyed. As far as I know, it was extremely hard for them to cope. It was impossible to travel such long distances with the girls. So I’d like to thank you on their behalf.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you! Thanks a lot! As for the boarding house in St Petersburg, the staff there aren’t aware that registration at one’s place of residence is no longer required under the Constitution.  I think they will change their stance on this. We’ll discuss the issue after the event, OK? And we’ll see what we can do about it.

Diana Gurtskaya: Thank you very much indeed.

Stanislav Ivanov (Vice President of the Russian Deaf and Hearing-Impaired Association): Mr Putin, thank you for giving me the floor. On behalf of the Russian Deaf Association, I’d like to thank the Russian government for its efforts to provide social protection for the deaf and hearing-impaired. Our association has been closely and proactively involved in the development of the state programme Accessible Environment. The Health and Social Development Ministry has tried to take into account all the issues related to the everyday activities of the hearing-impaired. These include access to information as well as access to transport network and to other public services. The greatest problem for us is access to information. To the hearing-impaired, it’s crucial that all relevant information on public services be presented visually.  

There are problems with training personnel in subtitle services. In Russia, these services are provided by Russian sign language teachers and translators. The status of sign language is yet to be raised. We have no state educational standards for training sign language teachers and translators at institutions of higher learning, which leads to a lack of qualified personnel and poor-quality subtitle services.

Of course, we want the deaf and hearing-impaired to be provided with all necessary court, judicial and notary services because Russian sign language is very rich, and it needs further study, further development, and state support. In education and other areas, there are a lot of special terms that deaf people need to comprehend. There should be feedback between a deaf person and a translator/interpreter, which is why it’s so important to have professionals competent in providing subtitle services in all areas of life.

As for Russian sign language teachers, there are no programmes at this point to train such specialists in Russia. And there is a shortage of sign language translators. We’d like these problems to be addressed.

Along with the Health and Social Development Ministry, we’ve proposed an amendment to the law on social protection of the disabled. [Our proposal] is about raising the status of Russian sign language so that it could be entitled to legally sanctioned state support. This measure would bring order to the training of Russian sign language teachers and translators, including at institutions of higher learning. It would also advance sign language research and improve sign language translation/interpretation services, enhancing control over their quality and preventing the misuse of government funds allocated for the purpose. 

Under the current regulations, a deaf person is entitled to 40 hours of sign language translation/interpretation services, and these are, thankfully, funded by the government. It would be feasible if sign language translators were competent in education and a wide range of other areas.

A deaf or hearing-impaired person cannot feel at ease without a sing language interpreter/translator, so I ask you, Mr Putin, to support our proposal on Russian sign language’s status, its further development, learning, and use. This will make it possible for people with impaired hearing to receive quality sign language translation services.

Also, we’ve reached consensus with the Health and Social Development Ministry and the Education Ministry. Mr Zhukov (Deputy Prime Minister) has been instructed to establish an interdepartmental ad hoc group to work in a number of [related] areas. And we are happy about this development. We had a list of basic sports for the hearing impaired approved as recently as August 17. This issue has vital importance to us. We successfully perform at Paralympic Games, as well as at world and European championships. The important thing is to secure substantial state support for the advancement of our basic sports in the regions.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you. And where do sign language translators get their training?

Tatyana Golikova: At higher educational institutions.

Stanislav Ivanov: There are also distance learning programmes where school graduates are trained in sign language translation, but these programmes are usually too short. We would like such training to be provided as part of on-campus education at colleges and universities in all federal districts.  This will let us increase the number of translators and the quality of their education.

Tatyana Golikova: Here’s how things stand today. We need 7,600 qualified sign language translators while only 1,100 are currently available.

The Accessible Environment programme provides for 31.6 million roubles in government allocations, to be released within a five-year period. That money will suffice to train only 630 sign language translators. It’s too little and too spread-out in time. 

We share the concern voiced by Mr Ivanov just now. I know that our colleagues from the Education and Science Ministry are working on this. I hope that within their effective powers and study programmes they will single this out as a priority, thereby narrowing the timeframe. For our part, in cooperation with the foreign and the emergencies ministries, we are launching courses to teach basic sign language skills to professionals who work in direct contact with deaf and hearing impaired individuals. These courses are part of the Accessible Environment programme.

Vladimir Putin: Well, if 7,000 translators are required, that is how many we must provide. I don’t think it will cost us a fortune.

Tatyana Golikova: As I said, the training of 630 translators will cost some 31.6 million roubles. This isn’t a huge sum.

Vladimir Putin: No, not at all. So we’d rather do it in full.

Maxim Dulinov (Deputy Education Minister): Thank you. When we were considering this problem, we didn’t yet have a clear-cut assignment by region so that we could increase our admission quotas accordingly. That’s easy. But then we’ll also have to make sure that all of our future graduates are provided with employment.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, we need to think of how we could arrange for such professionals to be relocated to the places where they are needed most. As for the funding, the required money is a trifling sum for the state, but it may prove life-changing to the individuals who will benefit from it. This is why it’s important to address this problem in full. I’d like you and the Finance Ministry to submit your proposals by next week.

Stanislav Ivanov: Also, briefly, we’ve supported your idea to set up the Popular Front and we think we could contribute some proposals to its programme. We’d like to participate proactively, trying to improve the quality of life for all people in our country.

Mr Putin, the Russian Deaf and Hearing-Impaired Association is turning 85 this year. To us, this is an important anniversary. A Moscow-Vladivostok motor rally kicks off at 10 a.m. tomorrow to celebrate the occasion.

This is the first time we’ve undertaken such an ambitious drive, with the aim being to raise public awareness of the Accessible Environment programme. We want to tell people around the country about the problems we are currently facing.

Vladimir Putin: Will you take the Chita-Khabarovsk highway? The one leading to Vladivostok?

Stanislav Ivanov: We’re going to fly to Vladivostok and back. But during this tour, we’ll visit as many as 15 of Russia’s regions. That is our plan. We’ll also deal with transport infrastructure. We’ll be monitoring local transport infrastructure, and our proposals will then be used as a basis for its further development. And we’ll probably submit our proposals to the Transport Ministry.

Vladimir Putin: I think this could be very useful. I wish you the best of luck!

Stanislav Ivanov: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Enjoy the trip.

Mr Kuznetsov, go ahead, please.

Dmitry Kuznetsov (Vice President of the Moscow Judo Federation, leader of the Doctor Judo project for people with physical disabilities): Mr Putin, ladies and gentlemen. I’d like to tell you about the programme currently being run by the Moscow Judo Federation.

Among the print materials we distribute, there is the From Heart to Heart magazine, which we launched six years ago, when we began our programme at the children’s home on Kashirskoye Shosse. There we took pictures of children who were the first to join the programme. They are grownups now.

The project started out as a charity effort. We bought prams and fruit juices for the kids. We asked them what they would like to do for fun. “Take us somewhere,” they said. So we bought a bus to take them to the circus, to a dolphinarium and to many other places children are usually keen to visit. Later on, various foundations got involved, suggesting we should attend rehabilitation courses with dogs, horses and dolphins.

Further down the road, we developed the Doctor Judo programme in 2006, in association with the Russian Children’s Clinical Hospital. This programme involves physical exercises with the elements of judo, as well as various sports games, which enable kids to develop physically while also facilitating their social adaptation. Training sessions take place at our children’s judo centres, which we open on the grounds of general education schools. We have nine such centres in Moscow at the moment. There are certain requirements to meet: a school has to have two gyms, of which one has been fitted out especially for judo classes. So there’s a PE class held in the morning and a judo training session in the afternoon. The classes are taught by qualified coaches and there are always doctors on standby because it’s children with disabilities that we train. They regularly go to our summer camp to stay with other young athletes there, and that kind of communication has a positive effect.

Also, in association with the Artist Foundation, we arrange prosthetic leg and foot surgery at a hospital in Dallas. This hospital performs five operations a year for us free of charge, and in the past year, we’ve had as many as seven operations performed. The beneficiaries are orphaned or abandoned children. One of them, a boy from Rostov-on-Don, has been adopted by an American couple working at that very hospital (they visited about four months ago). There’s also Sasha Pukhelko, who is now studying at the Surikov Art Institute, and Vitya Kochkin, who won the Moment of Glory contest with a breakdance act he performed together with another boy from the Penza Region. 

There are sports achievements, too. At the latest Olympics, for example, a student from Boarding School Bo. 11 won a bronze medal in judo.

But the programme’s primary aim is social rather than physical adaptation of people with disabilities. And its ultimate element, which we began working on two years ago, is about providing career opportunities for our 18-year-olds. There are 200 people currently involved in our programme and we’ve found employment for 50. We offer a choice of three or four careers, including jobs as an accountant, a lawyer, a worker and a courier.  So the guys begin to work and study. We have ongoing contact with them. We see them during training sessions and at work and we take part in their everyday lives. We know about problems that they come to face in their adult lives and, being always around, we can help them cope.

In nationwide terms, 200-250 children with disabilities is a minute number, but I hope that by drawing on the support of the Russian government as well as on our own skills and expertise, which we’ve been promoting in Moscow for five years now, we’ll be able to develop a nationwide programme for sports and social rehabilitation of children with disabilities.

In conclusion, I would like to say that most of our kids come from Boarding School No. 11 [for Children with Mental Disabilities]. It is based at Lyublino. Having attended training sessions for a month, the kids visited an annual Grand Slam tournament in Moscow; when they came back home, wearing brand T-shirts, one of them was so full of emotion that he felt like painting a picture where he could express his impressions of the judo competition he had just seen. But the next art lesson must have been a long while away, so he just used the cover of his bedside table as a panel. That spontaneity makes the picture particularly moving, I think. The boy was 12 at the time and when he brought his painting, I promised to hand it over to Mr Putin when I got the chance.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you very much. Which of the Grand Slam tournaments did you go to?

Dmitry Kuznetsov: It was the 2007 tournament.

Vladimir Putin: You said that 200 people is a small group. Well, I don’t think it’s small. We must not lose sight of a single person who needs our help. If more organisations like yours emerge across this country, each taking care of another hundred or two, if that kind of work becomes mass-scale, we will then get close to solving the accessibility problem.

Any more questions, ladies and gentlemen? Ms Kulik, please go ahead.

Maria Kulik (president of the charity foundation Life Quality for the promotion of healthy living): Mr Putin, ladies and gentlemen.  My name is Maria Kulik; I’m the president of the charity foundation Life Quality, which has for 12 years been working towards the goal of social integration of people with disabilities. I’d like to raise just one of those issues here. It’s about work integration of people with serious disorders. For such people, work integration, along with medical rehabilitation, may have an important therapeutic and treatment effect. Russia has unique experience in promoting such integration through labour treatment workshops. They proved their efficiency a long time ago, but they now lack legal and financial support. The method is particularly relevant for people who have become disabled as a result of mental illnesses – this is the largest group and the hardest to treat. The workshops I’m talking about provide employment while also giving an opportunity for individuals to prepare themselves for the employment market.

Vladimir Putin: And who oversees them now? Those that currently operate?

Maria Kulik: No one. They used to have the status of in-patient clinics.

Vladimir Putin: No, I mean if they are in regional or municipal ownership?

Maria Kulik: Regional.

Vladimir Putin: Is that so?

Maria Kulik: Yes. I must say that employment of disabled people with serious disorders has deep social and economic implications not just for those people themselves. The effect could also be dramatic for their family members, who often have to give up their jobs and social activities to be able to concentrate on care.

Vladimir Putin: It’s like devoting all of your time to a small child.

Maria Kulik: Exactly. Given our current population decline, we cannot afford to waste our human resources. So, as a representative of a nonprofit organisation, I’d like to call your attention to the fact that associations such as ours can and want to help. We could guide disabled people towards their integration with the community. We could provide them with a full list of vacancies on offer in the free employment market. And we could train them in professions that are most in demand, working directly with employers and business executives.

I don’t agree with Mr Vshivtsev, who said that we aren’t ready to enter the free employment market yet. That’s not true. Businesses are ready to hire people with disabilities.

But what will such a move involve for an employer? First of all, a worker with a disability needs constant medical care, which costs money. Then, there’s accessibility infrastructure to be built in the office, which is no easy task, especially if the company operates from rented premises. Also, some additional transport has to be hired to provide daily commuting services. Then again, people with disabilities usually work part time, thereby undermining their company’s efficiency. We’re happy therefore that the Healthcare and Social Development Ministry has decided to motivate the business community. But I don’t think 50,000 roubles is a strong enough incentive because the actual costs will by far exceed this sum. That’s all I wanted to say.

Vladimir Putin: Originally, it was 30,000 roubles but now the sum has been increased to 50,000. And we are willing to raise it further. Mrs Kulik, getting back to your organisation, what specific kinds of support do you need? How would you like the state to assist you? Is it just grants that you need – that would be easy – or some other assistance, too?

Maria Kulik: Well, I think it would be great if we used a public-private partnership to create support schemes for people with disabilities. Nowadays our organisation and the charity foundation Co-integration are creating – in association with the European Union and the Moscow government – an innovative service to provide customised care to the disabled. Unlike state and municipal agencies, non-profit organisations are more sensitive to the individual needs of disabled people and, hence, more effective in providing targeted assistance.

Vladimir Putin: I agree.

Maria Kulik: This is why I think we should jointly make appropriate decisions and that the state should engage non-profit organisations and civil society.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, the state could help by providing grants, because yours is a well-organised NGO, which just needs some financial support to stay afloat.

Maria Kulik: This may not be enough, you know. I personally believe that…

Vladimir Putin: And what else do you need then? I really want to understand.

Maria Kulik: Organisations with government and other participation should be established using state funding.

Vladimir Putin: But then, they will differ in quality from your organisation.

Maria Kulik: You see, if we receive a grant, we can use it to create a model or establish an individual caregivers service – but what next?

Vladimir Putin: Let us create such a model and see how it works.

Maria Kulik: All right.

Vladimir Putin: Are you in contact with Ms Golikova?

Tatyana Golikova: Yes, in very close contact.

Maria Kulik: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: Let’s do it and see how it works, all right?

Maria Kulik: Yes, of course. Thank you.

Remark: Can I put in a word?

Vladimir Putin: Let Ms Lantratova speak first.

Yana Lantratova (federal coordinator for charity of the national public organisation United Russia’s Young Guard, and supervisor for the I’m a Volunteer, Accessible Environment and Protection of Children projects): Thank you very much. Mr Putin, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Yana Lantratova. I am the supervisor of the federal projects Young Guard, I’m a Volunteer, and Protection of Children. We have volunteers in 95 cities around Russia. They help children, disabled people and the elderly. Young people register with one of the offices in their city to provide regular help to children with disabilities and other children. This includes targeted aid, help with social adaptation, occupational guidance and help with employment, home help and leisure activities.

We have a separate field of work that I would like to tell you about. Our volunteers monitor the internet for paedophilia, child pornography and other violations of children’s rights. What is most important is that we have seen some tangible results. We found adoptive parents for eight children, and an aphasic child regained speech during a hypnotherapy session we had arranged.

Using our information about children cruelly abused at an orphanage, Pavel Astakhov (the presidential commissioner for children’s rights) had its principal dismissed. They had a child who suffered from incontinence and they punished him by strapping him down on a bare metal stretcher, carrying him along unheated corridors to the bathroom, where he was put under a cold shower and “cleaned” with a toilet brush.

We also provided information that led to the arrest of a paedophile who posted photos of his seven-year-old daughter online. Another paedophile was recently detained in Moscow just when he was about to start a job in a summer camp as a counsellor.

Another important direction in our work is the protection of children at mental institutions, where they are often heavily drugged, which leads to the loss of legal capacity, and swindled of their property. Strong drugs are used on them in punishment. Last night, I was in St Petersburg together with the head of a housing committee. We gave back housing ownership documents to a child for whose flat we had been litigating since November. It was the second case in which we have restored property to its lawful owner. The people whom we had assisted with regaining legal competence were present. One, a father we had helped to preserve his parental rights, came with his young child. The young man who regained ownership of his flat made a marriage proposal that same day to a girl who had come through the same institution. It was very rewarding.

We have recently launched a project for homeless children. We had never worked with them before. Many orphanage leavers become our volunteers. We see how they integrate into society: when they live and work side by side with their peers, girls develop maternal feelings atrophied in childhood because they were not brought up in a family. These teenagers have inside knowledge of orphanages, and know things we don’t realise even after regular visits. They informed us about paedophiles working there and those who had been dismissed, and about violations of disabled children’s rights. That was how we began this work.

I realise that what we do is a drop in the ocean but we are truly eager to help. Our hotline gets messages and calls from all parts of Russia every day. We are a non-profit organisation, so we attract law students to the job, and they help us deal with the legal side of different situations.

When President Dmitry Medvedev said that it was necessary to establish public commissions for monitoring the internet, we decided to propose youth monitoring groups. The only thing volunteers want is to help children at orphanages. They can join such public youth monitoring groups and work in direct contact with law enforcement agencies. That would allow them to respond to violations quickly and help these agencies to address problems.

I am very glad to have had the opportunity to take part in this meeting. We work closely with regional associations of people with disabilities. I would like to start cooperation with their federal counterparts today. I am willing to cooperate, and our activists are ready to help with every project. I’ll be glad to expand our experience and later share it with the regions.

I have a question to ask in connection with the proposal to establish youth monitoring groups. We collected proposals for the Popular Front programme in all regions and united all small volunteer organisations that had no national status. We have a ramified network in 95 cities with five years’ experience, tested methods and practical achievements. We have also won public confidence because we are idealists and people know that we can’t be bribed and will never betray our cause. Can volunteer movements without the national status join the Popular Front? If they can, we will volunteer for the Front and will be glad to be of use. Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you, Yana, you are of use as it is. I don’t mean Popular Front membership – I mean that you are doing good work. So your activists are volunteering in 95 Russian cities?

Yana Lantratova: Yes, 95 cities in 83 regions. When I submitted my proposals to the Popular Front, I attached a list of the cities. We have a coordinator in each city, and every coordinator runs a group of volunteers. Some are very small, as in Prokopyevsk in the Kemerovo Region, while others are sizeable.

Vladimir Putin: Good. I think we should consider this matter from a different perspective. We will not think about what you can do for the Popular Front; instead, I’ll talk to my colleagues about what we can do for you. When you need support, address our colleagues from the Popular Front, who can apply directly to administrative bodies and law enforcement agencies. You will have the necessary support. That goes without saying. Yours is a worthy cause, all the more so as your activists are truly dedicated to it. Thank you.

Natalya Prisetskaya (president of the Katyusha regional public organisation in support of parents with limited abilities and their families, Moscow): My name is Natalya Prisetskaya. I am the leader of the non-profit organisation Katyusha in support of parents with limited abilities and their families.

Mr Putin, I would like to begin by thanking you for your support three years ago, when I was not allowed to board an airplane because of my physical disability. You raised the issue of discrimination against persons with disabilities in public transport at a government meeting and drew public attention to the problem. I thank you on behalf of many disabled people who can travel freely now. Things are certainly improving.

Today I would like to talk about family policy on people with disabilities, and their access to healthcare services.

We support disabled people who have healthy children, including those who received the disability status after the birth of their children. Here is an example: we are sponsoring a family with two children, whose father was killed and mother was permanently injured in a road accident. Even after such tragedies, the victims remain loving parents. They certainly need state support.

This is a problem that has never been addressed in Russia before. We are the first to tackle it. There are even no precise statistics on it. The Moscow Healthcare Department says that 60 women with physical disabilities give birth every year but no statistics at all are available on healthy parents developing physical disabilities in industrial and road accidents and terrorist attacks. They still have their children to bring up and they need state services.

This is a multifaceted problem. I will try to describe it in short. One can also look it up in an available brief outline of my speech and in materials circulated at the meeting. Though much is being done to ensure healthcare access, it needs support and monitoring by public organisations. Take an outpatient clinic that has built ramps and proudly wrote it up in a report – but these ramps are of no use as they alternate with stairs. There is no special medical equipment for disabled patients, particularly for wheelchair-confined people. Just getting an X-ray is a problem, to say nothing of obstetric services.

Healthcare personnel’s attitude to women with disabilities is also a major problem. Pilot studies in Moscow showed that 30% of women applying to prenatal services are offered to have a termination though worldwide medical research proves that physical disabilities, especially those that are not hereditary, only rarely affect pregnancy and childbirth.

There are no programmes for medical support to disabled parents with newborn children. I know it from firsthand experience – my daughter was born two years ago. Just imagine: a wheelchair confined couple with a baby trying to survive in Moscow. How can they visit a doctor? It’s impossible to get to a clinic even in Moscow. We also receive ample information from other Russian cities about the need for help and support – but the problem is ignored completely.

This is new level of the accessible environment issue. Here is an example: when the people helping a man in a wheelchair up the stairs drop him, he may get away with a broken arm or leg or some other injury but when they drop a pregnant woman she may lose her baby and sustain very serious damage to her health though disabled people usually give birth to healthy children. Statistically, in only one case out of a hundred a disabled baby was born to a disabled father, and even that was a result of a birth injury.

Accessible environment is also vitally important for parents not to be walled off from their children’s lives. Meanwhile, I, a wheelchair confined mother, cannot take my daughter to kindergarten or attend a celebration there. When children go to school, it’s a problem to meet with their teachers. So the accessibility of schools, kindergartens and recreation facilities really matters to us. We are parents like any others, and we want to bring up our children and take part in their lives. We also need extended social support.

Here is another example: the only social benefit I am entitled to as a disabled mother of a two-year-old child is priority on the kindergarten waiting list. That is great help but there is absolutely nothing else. And it is the same for all disabled parents. We are not included in social housing programmes, which we direly need, just as we need social services.

I cannot accompany my child to a sports class. Then, there are employment problems, which have been mentioned here already. To parents, a job means not only earnings but also socialising and self-fulfilment. If we want to bring up our children well, we must grow too, enrich our minds and share it with our children.

I have contacted the Moscow office of the United Nations’ International Labour Organisation on a number of occasions. Paradoxically, they have support programmes either for parents or for people with disabilities, while we are employed parents with disabilities, and we need extended care, which no country in the world offers. Be that as it may, we want to work and to earn a living, and we need support with that, too, for example training schemes. We are discriminated against as mothers and disabled people at the same time. It is very difficult to find a job, and it is very important for us.

Mr Putin, it is essential to introduce the official status of disabled parents for us to receive extended support. This status must be introduced. There are relevant national and regional programmes to adopt and implement. I would also like to highlight what Mr Krupennikov said: as a regional non-profit organisation, we can be more flexible in responding to the regions’ needs. We can be quicker when work has to be adapted to the social changes in two or three regions. We certainly also need support.

In conclusion, I would like to say the following. Mr Putin, ladies and gentlemen, we are terrified by the prospect of juvenile justice being partly introduced in Russia. There have already been some frightening instances covered by the media. Mr Krupennikov is also familiar with them. I mean cases when disabled people were deprived of parental rights. They were separated from their children because allegedly they were not capable of bringing them up properly. Juvenile justice might be a good system in itself but we are afraid it will be carried too far and we will lose our children under the pretext of our physical disabilities. We give birth to wonderful, beautiful and healthy children and we bring them up as Russian patriots, but we need support from the state. Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you. I don’t think juvenile justice will have such ugly manifestations. After all, such cases occur even now, and the system has not been introduced yet.

Natalya Prisetskaya: There are some cases, that’s right.

Vladimir Putin: This is a separate and complex subject. As for the status of disabled parents, let us think about it together. Ms Golikova is also here and can hear our discussion. We will ask your advice on what can be done about it, and estimate the costs. At any rate, this is an important issue to consider.

All problems are rooted in the lack of accessible environment. As I said in my opening address, we have earmarked sizeable targeted grants up to 2016. But this money must not be misspent. You have mentioned ramps that look good on paper but can’t be used, so I say again that organisations for persons with disabilities must be actively involved in the implementation of state-funded programmes, or we will waste money and achieve no results.

Thank you for calling our attention to special medical equipment. Let us put it down in the healthcare modernisation programme. It envisages large-scale purchases of such equipment, and we must provide items for disabled persons. I am not sure about it, so please look into the matter again and consult with the regions.

Tatyana Golikova: There’s another problem. Imports are not enough, we also need orders to Russian and other industries.

Vladimir Putin: They’ll be working at it for decades.

Tatyana Golikova: At least, they should be aware of the problem.

Vladimir Putin: I am not sure whether Russian manufacturers have the means to fulfil such orders. Perhaps they do, we have to look into it. After all, we’ll be purchasing both in Russia and in other countries. I want to see it for myself. Go ahead, please.

Vyacheslav Karnyushin (board chairman of the Bryansk Region’s Chernobyl Union public organisation of persons disabled in the Chernobyl nuclear disaster): Mr Putin, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to begin by congratulating you on the Feast of the Transfiguration. Mr Putin, I think I will speak on the most tragic problem of all discussed here. I have been the board chairman of the Bryansk Region’s Chernobyl Union for 25 years now. I am also a member of the Popular Front Coordination Council and the complaints commission, head of the community liaison office, chairman of an observation council and adviser to the region’s governor. See how many positions I have amassed in 25 years!

I cannot present my problems in brief because I must site many figures. I will speak on the funding for health screenings for the people living in areas contaminated by the Chernobyl disaster in the Bryansk Region.

The disaster caused nuclear contamination of 22 administrative districts of the Bryansk Region, total area exceeding 11 million hectares. Over 325,000 people, including 60,000 children and teenagers, presently live in the areas contaminated by long-lived radionuclides – cesium-137 and strontium. More than 117,000 people, 21,000 of them children and teenagers, are entitled to resettlement. More than 73,000 people, 14,000 of them children and teenagers, live in the heaviest-contaminated part of European Russia, with over 15 Ci/sq km. The rate of illness corresponds to radioactive contamination. Adult rate of illness in the heaviest-contaminated areas exceed the region’s average by 50%.

According to the regional cancer detection centre, cancer morbidity in the heaviest-contaminated areas of the Bryansk Region exceeds the national average by 9%, and has been growing in the past decade. The national average increase of cancer incidence is 15% against 21.2% in the Bryansk Region and 25.8% in its heaviest-contaminated parts. The incidence of thyroid cancer exceeds the national average by 250%. The rapid growth of breast cancer incidence is also alarming: 77.8% in the heaviest-contaminated areas within the preceding 10 years against the regional average of 33.4% and national average of 18.4%. The patients’ age is decreasing: breast cancer frequently affects women aged 30 to 40.

Ample medical experience stored in the 25 years since the Chernobyl disaster proved the expedience of special step-by-step health screenings.

Three-stage screenings were introduced in 1994 in all contaminated areas of the Bryansk Region. The first stage, general health evaluation, is implemented by local doctors. The second stage, diagnosis verification, is made at the region’s specialised medical institutions. The third stage, implying special examinations and treatment, is conducted at regional and federal clinics.

This system has proved its effectiveness. The screenings for a wide range of diseases rather than only radiation-caused pathologies reduces social tensions in the contaminated areas.

Radiation medicine was funded locally and federally until 2006. The programme of government guarantees does not envisage mandatory health screening of people affected by radiation. Since 2006, radiation medicine is funded solely from the regional budget. 1.5 million roubles – a meagre sum – was allocated this year for the treatment of people in the Bryansk Region affected by the Chernobyl disaster.

Mandatory health screening of people living in the areas contaminated by accidents and disasters has been stricken off the federal targeted programme for overcoming the aftermath of nuclear accident to 2015. Such screening is now entirely up to relevant district services with the participation of regional specialists. Screening is an extra burden on the Bryansk Region’s healthcare system, which other parts of Russia do not have.

More than 130,000 people undergo medical examinations every year in the heaviest-contaminated parts of the region, for which regional healthcare services follow Healthcare Ministry’s Resolution No. 216 of May 26, 2003, On the Health Screening of Persons Affected by Radiation due to the Chernobyl Nuclear Plant Disaster. The current legislation entitles 200,000 residents of the contaminated areas of Bryansk to annual medical examinations, including 59,700 children and teenagers. Healthcare Ministry Resolution No. 216 of May 26, 2003, On the Health Screening of Individuals Affected by Radiation due to the Chernobyl Nuclear Plant Disaster, requires 200,000 general blood counts, 200,000 urinalyses, and 180,000 USG thyroid a year. It is also necessary to make 15,000 breast scans a year for women past the age of 40 and 38,000 X-rays for people of the senior employable age unless they are entitled to such tests on other disease prevention programmes.

The medical institutions that serve contaminated areas need 19 million roubles of annual federal grants to purchase the relevant chemicals and equipment for laboratory tests – particularly, 5.2 million roubles for blood counts, 5.4 million for urinalyses, 3.1 million for USG thyroid, and 2.5 million for X-rays.

The second stage of the programme – specialised health screening – is funded solely from the regional budget as the clinics and diagnostic centres of Bryansk regularly examine Chernobyl nuclear plant rescue personnel and those with the equivalent legal status. Overall, screening involves the population of the contaminated parts of the region, with over 5 Ci/sq km.

Over 52,000 residents of the heaviest-contaminated areas, including Chernobyl rescue personnel, apply to the Bryansk clinical diagnostic centre every year. They are entitled to 120,000 free laboratory tests and 35,000 instrument related examinations. Laboratory chemicals and equipment cost 700,000 roubles a year. Expensive instrument related examinations cost additional 2.5 million roubles. Thus, specialised health screening necessitated by the Chernobyl disaster requires a 300,000 rouble annual federal grant. All told, specialised health screening for the Bryansk Region’s radiation-affected population requires annual extra funding amounting to 22.1 million roubles.

Mr Putin, it is no secret that 90% of the children born in the Bryansk Region, one of whose parents was affected by radiation, are sick, and the rest, considered healthy, are threatened by illness. I have a request for you. You have been to Bryansk and to Klintsy, a town with a population of 75,000 in a contaminated area whose residents are to be resettled. The town’s maternity home has been under construction since 1996.

A children’s onco-haematological centre has been built in Bryansk. It also needs money, but grants are earmarked for as late as 2013. Please speed up the assistance for these two projects – the centre and the Klintsy maternity clinic. Funding should begin next year at the latest.

I am in a terrible situation. My four-year-old daughter has acute aplastic anaemia. She’s in a very bad state. She spent a year in a Moscow hospital. I was with her. No special treatment has been invented for her disease yet. Patients receive a standard treatment used for all forms of anaemia. I have found a way with other doctors, who have pioneering methods, and I had to sell my three-room flat to buy medicines for her from abroad. She is treated with stem cells, marrow preparations, and blood-forming drugs that include every chemical element under the sun. My little girl takes a pill every quarter of an hour – all that to avoid a marrow transplant, which offers no hope. Almost all the children who were in the hospital with her are dead now.

To finish with the medical theme, I dare ask you again to initiate funding for the maternity and onco-haematological centres next year.

I have another question to you. I am a Central Council member of the Russian Chernobyl Union, whose Moscow branch is led by Vyacheslav Grishin. The organisation has about two million members, and has branches in 70 regions. We have asked for funds for our statutory activities, but in vain. Just figure, an organisation as big as an army has no money at all! Believe it or not, I have been maintaining it with my own money for 25 years. I could have found charitable people in the past but now, with my own tragedy…

According to Chernobyl-related laws, I am the only person with the right to monitor finance and bring lawsuits. When I brought a suit against one of the region governors (Alexander Semernyov, former Bryansk governor), I paid with the health of one of my children. The governor’s men took my boy to a waste site behind a chemical plant, where they hit him with a car and left him, and  they thought he was dead. Then they came to me and ordered me to withdraw my application from the prosecutor’s office. I had to succumb. That’s how much I have paid for the Chernobyl Union.

My son spent 17 days in intensive care. When he came to, he said: “Dad, don’t leave the Chernobyl Union.” So I stand by it. Please include the Union central organisation in some programme or other, if only for the children, or monetary aid, or legal services – and the central organisation will do what it can for the regional branches.

I receive up to 500 applicants a year – old men and women, and widows of men who died in their prime, in their early 40s. You know the death rate among Chernobyl rescue personnel. There are about 2,500 people in the Chernobyl Union, who have lost their provider – not only rescuers but all kinds of people from the Russian southwest. It’s a torment to listen to them.

Mr Putin, you blocked a law drawn by the Emergencies Ministry setting contamination limits for habitable areas to remove the population from the worst areas. Now, take an aged woman living on her own in a contaminated village with no jobs. As a resident in a contaminated area, she is entitled to the so-called Chernobyl grant – 200-400 roubles a month. This token sum provides bread. If she is forced to move to a cleaner place, she will lose her only income, however scant it might be. We cannot give her anything in compensation. The death rate will skyrocket in my region, great as they are even now. So much for the medical issues connected with the Chernobyl Union.

Mr Putin, everyone at the Popular Front Coordination Council asked me to thank you at its meeting yesterday. I visited all 13 platforms and took part in all the discussions as Coordination Council member. Every auditorium, seating a thousand, was full, standing room only. I have never seen anything like it in 25 years, and had never heard of many of the organisations represented there. You brought them together as the Popular Front’s leader. Now, they are in the Front and its Coordination Council, and they came to thank you for consolidating these public organisations. Almost every party is represented in the Front – the Communists, Just Russia, and the Right Cause.

I would also like to thank Mr Basargin for his consideration and the extra 96 million rouble grant to Chernobyl rescue personnel and new settlers. Of those who were on the housing waiting list before January 1, 2005, 800 are still on it. We didn’t  mention it all last year because we knew war veterans were the first to get new housing.

We also thank Ms Golikova for her tremendous concern about Chernobyl rescue personnel and the entire Bryansk Region population. All of our problems are being addressed thanks to her.

There is the Desna sport centre in the Bryansk Region. I think you have visited it. The centre needs another 550 million roubles to improve public health in the entire region. We have done much – ice palaces are opening one after another, and almost every district has a fitness centre.

Our region does need it all. It was strongly affected by the Chernobyl disaster. I worked at the Chernobyl plant and have been diagnosed with 117 rem. I was bed-ridden for two years but eventually recovered. It wasn’t a complete recovery. My little daughter developed anaemia because I had been exposed – that’s what the medical council said in Moscow. I have another child, a girl of eight, and my wife is pregnant again. When the baby is born, its marrow might qualify for transplant if the younger girl needs it – the elder girl’s marrow was not compatible. Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you. As for extra grants for laboratory tests, I think we will find 22.2 million roubles quite soon.

Tatyana Golikova: We can do it on the modernisation and improvement programme.

Vladimir Putin: Okay, settled. As for the two construction projects, I know about them from the governor’s report. We will address the matter together. We usually address such problems working with the regional authorities. We might fund the projects on a fifty-fifty arrangement. We will discuss the problem and see what can be done to move construction forward. I think you have earmarked these sums in the programme?

Tatyana Golikova: No. The regions have the authority to shift financial priorities.

Vladimir Putin: Do you happen to remember our grants to the Bryansk Region?

Tatyana Golikova: I can’t say for sure. At any rate, there are sizeable allocations on all programmes in the Central Federal District. We can call attention to this at a meeting on this subject, which is scheduled quite soon.

Vladimir Putin: Agreed.

Tatyana Golikova: They can also request extra funding because the region has done well in programme implementation.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, we’ll see. The healthcare modernisation programme focuses on the regions, and regions like Bryansk are certainly entitled to billions of roubles.

Vyacheslav Karnyushin: But, Mr Putin, these two projects demand extra allocations.

Vladimir Putin: We’ll see what we can do – we have a small reserve. I call on the Ministry of Healthcare and Social Development and the regional administration to review the projects you mentioned.

It is certainly a critical field because the incidence of all diseases is receding in Russia while cancer accounts for the smallest decrease at 1.1%.

The other question concerns demography. Maternity and perinatal centres should be first priority. We are implementing an ambitious programme in this field. So these kinds of centres are also in the focus of our attention. We will certainly address the problem.

Vyacheslav Karnyushin: Mr Putin, I said that the funding of medium-sized projects…

Vladimir Putin: Yes, I jotted it down. I just didn’t say it.

Vyacheslav Karnyushin: But the Desna sport centre, which you have seen, is a huge project, and it will be in the Central Federal District. I talked to officials here in Moscow about it, and wrote to Mr Poltavchenko (presidential envoy to the Central Federal District), asking to contact you on the matter, but I haven’t received any reply yet.

Vladimir Putin: We will see what we can do about the sport centre.

Vyacheslav Karnyushin: It needs another 550 million roubles.

Vladimir Putin: I see, 550 million. As you know, we have set standards of fund distribution between regions. However, I promise to make the relevant orders to the Ministry of Sport and Youth Policy. They will see what can be done for the project. Okay?

Vyacheslav Karnyushin: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Sorry to interrupt you. What do you want to add?

Viktor Basargin: I would like to make a comment. When I talked to Mr Karnyushin before the meeting, he understated the amount of housing construction for Chernobyl rescue personnel. Yes, we arranged new housing for slightly over 9,000 people on the waiting list. There are more than 12,000 on it now, of those registered before January 1, 2005, and another 2,000 who joined after that deadline. Our annual grants for this programme exceed 700 million roubles slightly, which is sufficient for 400 people in 70 regions.  

You ordered us to speed up the housing certificate turnover last year (an unredeemed certificate is invalidated in nine months). We did it in cooperation with the Finance Ministry this year for Chernobyl rescue personnel, among others – I mean we allocated 700 million roubles to accommodate slightly more than 400 people. With the quicker turnover, this arrangement helped us save 1.2 billion roubles for other categories of beneficiaries. So we allocated this 1.2 billion in July to address the Chernobyl rescue personnel’s problems, and roughly 700 families will see improved housing conditions.

Vladimir Putin: Within this year?

Viktor Basargin: Yes. There is also another proposal concerning Chernobyl rescue personnel. We are willing to work at it with the Finance Ministry. According to programme estimates, we will be able to accommodate all Chernobyl people before 2017 or 2018, judging by the amount of funding. Next year we expect to save on new housing for retired military – a project launched also on your initiative, Mr Putin. We request authorization to spend all the saved funds on addressing the Chernobyl rescuers’ problems.

Vladimir Putin: You mean people discharged from the Armed Forces in the 1990s?

Viktor Basargin: Yes, those on municipal waiting lists.

Vladimir Putin: What will you save on?

Viktor Basargin: The waiting lists are shorter than expected. We saw this when we did an inventory at your request.

Vladimir Putin: Good, I’ll do it. Just submit the relevant documents to me. We’ll consider it approved.

Viktor Basargin: So we will finish the Chernobyl housing programme by 2015.

Vladimir Putin: Agreed.

Viktor Basargin: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: I am sorry, let’s pass to the other side. I promise we’ll be back. Mr Terentyev has the floor.

Mikhail Terentyev (the general secretary of the Russian Paralympic Committee national public organisation): Mr Putin, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to raise three questions and advance certain proposals on problems we have discussed already. I would also like to complement what my colleagues said about the media coverage of our issues.

The state does a lot for the Paralympic movement but it’s still little known and rarely promoted. In addition, disabled people achieve a lot not only in sport but in literature, science and other fields.

Here is just one example – the recent ski race and biathlon world championships. The new Governor Natalya Komarova (the governor of the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Area – Yugra) did a fine job. The championships were very well organised, and the foreign athletes were happy. A major international athletic forum, the General Assembly of the European Paralympic Committees, also  hosted by Russia, is scheduled for September. So, you see, we should not only train athletes but also host forums that promote our interests and form the international agenda in the sport movement. We can only regret that, at this point, only a few specialists know about it all.

When we were preparing to meet with you here, we solved an apparently small problem then and there – our Agitos emblem appeared by the side of the Sochi Olympic emblem, with the five rings, on the  Russian government portal. “Agitos” means “I move.” In other words, Paralympics have acquired a status equal to the Olympics. So I ask you to mention Paralympics whenever you refer to Olympics. Let us make it one hyphenated word, “Olympic-Paralympic”, to catch the media’s attention because, regrettably, the media respond the quickest to what the authorities say. The more references to Paralympics the more outlets will want to know what they are about.

Not only Paralympic athletes but also every disabled person in Russia is glad to have insisted along with you in Guatemala City on hosting the Games. An excellent infrastructure is being constructed. I hope it will become a legacy not only for Sochi but for the entire nation to symbolise the change in public attitude toward people with disabilities in general. At present, there is a public prejudice against us. Physical handicaps are seen together with insanity or mental retardation. When I come to an airport with a caregiver, who submits my papers, the clerk addresses him not me though the caregiver does not understand many questions and has to ask me for explanations. I have to tell the clerk to talk to me not to the caregiver. Now that we are creating top-notch infrastructure, we must change the technological procedures for making this infrastructure relevant.  

I would like to say a few words about the air code, a theme I have been working at for two years. It started when Natalya Prisetskaya was not allowed to board a plane. The goal in amending the air code is to provide independence for the disabled people. They should have the opportunity to use this new infrastructure. Amendments are necessary to force air carriers to satisfy every passenger’s needs and respect not only people with disabilities but all persons with movement impediments  – seniors and the temporarily disabled.

The main argument two years ago was about whether the carrier or the disabled passenger should determine the need for a caregiver accompanying the passenger. According to the acting air code, it is the carrier’s duty, though the carrier cannot judge whether a passenger needs to be accompanied. An international legal principle recognised by a majority of states acknowledges the importance for persons with disabilities of their individual autonomy and independence, including the freedom to make their own choices. Russia has signed the convention [on the rights of persons with disabilities] and intends to ratify it, so we should proceed from its parameters.

Some amendments were drawn by an ad hoc team established under the expert council of the United Russia parliament group two years ago. Regrettably, the Transport Ministry later ordered further research on this issue because they doubted that anyone would help a physically disabled air passenger in an emergency if he travelled on his own. The research was done, and the ministry said they approved the results but not conclusions. They supported the concept, but said it required major alterations, to which I said that we should improve the draft amendments with lawyers. The ministry first appointed March as the deadline and then put it off till May. Now it thinks the amendments should be submitted within the package of amendments to the Russian legislation for the ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. As far as we know from the Ministry of Healthcare and Social Development, it is very hard to coordinate the amendments to the air code with this format. Be that as it may, the amendments must be endorsed soon if we are to have sufficient time to adjust airport technologically accessible  for the Olympic and Paralympic participants.

Whatever the Transport Ministry might think, the United Russia parliament group and its expert council approved my amendments and told me to submit them [to the State Duma]. Now they have been submitted with a proviso: I will withdraw them immediately if the ministry submits a better variant. Anyway, the amendments should get through parliament quickly.

I have written you a short letter to pace up the Transport Ministry’s work. They have been at it for two years now, and I think a nudge from the prime minister might help them to finish the job. The amendments submitted to the State Duma were posted a month ago on the Air Transport Review and avia.ru departmental websites, which also carry amendments drawn by the Ministry of Healthcare and Social Development, supplemented by a disapproving review regarding the Health Ministry’s amendments. No objections have come from the air carriers for now. This allows us to assume that they approve of our amendments in principle. And I believe that they should be immediately approved and finalised during the autumn session. I am ready to withdraw my own, if they come up with better ones. In any case, we need to get this done.

Moving to another subject, I would like to express my appreciation for the development of the Accessible Environment programme. In particular, I would like to note that this programme, which will be carried out by eight ministries and departments, is the first of its kind to address the needs of people with disabilities. Each ministry will be involved in order to make its services available to disabled people. In general, I believe that each ministry should have a plan of action with regard to their implementation of the convention provisions.

We already have an example of this in the preparations for the Paralympic Games; there is an excellent plan for creating a barrier-free environment in the run-up to the Olympic and Paralympic Games. The plan, which is being overseen by Dmitry Kozak, is well conceived and thoroughly thought-out. I believe that we will be well-prepared for the Olympic Games as well.

We also need to be sure that with eight ministries working on implementation of the Accessible Environment programme, we don't end up with a situation where too many cooks spoil the broth. I believe we need to be very careful in establishing the interdepartmental coordination of this work.

I'd like to reiterate that the state is doing a great deal. There are excellent programmes for improving road construction, healthcare and information policy. However, the question is whether these programmes effectively take the needs of disabled people into account, and who coordinates the implementation of these programmes. There is a department for disabled people within the Ministry of Healthcare and Social Development, but it is not in a position to conduct an expert analysis of the situation.

My colleagues and I have discussed this issue, but we have failed to come to a consensus and to decide what this should look like. Perhaps more authority should be given to the social development department? Perhaps, the disability department should be given expert authority? The Ministry of Trade and Economic Development has a regulatory assessment department that looks into all regulations and programmes that affect the investment climate and overall business conditions. Perhaps we should create an expert unit that would need to approve the implementation of all programmes and regulations prepared by executive authorities.

We have heard a lot here about the customary ways of dealing with disability issues in Russia. This work has traditionally been carried out by social security authorities for many decades now. We now have a good approach, with the precedent that has been developed during the drafting of the Accessible Environment programme, with the participation of eight ministries and departments. The industrial authorities and all departments should consider this. I should say that we have a presidential council and gubernatorial councils who are doing this work at the level of legislative and strategy development. What we lack at the executive level is interdepartmental coordination. It's very important to keep in mind that if the government makes such a decision, it will automatically be adopted by municipal authorities.

Now, moving to what my colleagues have already spoken about – namely, support of disability-related public organisations. First, we need to make a roster of these public organisations. The coordination of this work is already underway as part of the activities of the Popular Front. This work should continue into the future, in order to have such councils existing within district administrations, so that they can recommend sensible solutions to district executives when implementing municipal projects. As for the support of municipal entities: a draft law regulating support for non-profit organisations has been sitting in the State Duma for a year now. The law concerns allowing municipal entities to support regional organisations within the scope defined by the budget code. As of now, they do not have this right.

As for the volunteers, it’s a very good idea, but unfortunately, tax breaks are currently only available to volunteers who do work for major sporting events, such as Sochi, Kazan and, I believe, the APEC forum. I've spoken with Mr Mutko about the idea that these tax breaks should really be applied to all volunteers, not just those who are employed at major projects like these.

Concerning rehabilitation equipment, it is very important to take into account an individual approach. How can this be achieved? One solution could be a certificate. First, the choice of the rehabilitation equipment should be made by a commission at the medical and social expert council. This commission could also decide whether there’s the need for an even more customised approach, and could issue a certificate enabling a disabled person to purchase exactly the kind of equipment that he or she needs. Rehabilitation equipment is a way for a disabled person to be independent, just like the creation of an accessible environment.

As for hand-controlled cars, I believe that a disabled person should be entitled not only to buy a properly equipped and certified car, but to equip any car with hand controls. How can this equipment be certified? Allow official dealerships, or the dealers who install this equipment, to do this work themselves.

I believe that if we are careful and attentive in establishing interdepartmental coordination, a decision that I believe should be made, then disabled people will be able to have access to all spheres of life. We need to move away from the belief that if we provide disabled people with more government benefits, they would simply sit at home and never go out – that they would come up with opportunities for distance learning and distance employment that would allow disabled people to get paid to work from home. Disabled people do not want this, they want to live in society among everyone else. Ultimately, this is important for society, which will grow accustomed to the presence of disabled people in the streets in a matter of a few years. People with disabilities will become regular citizens, just like everyone else.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you. The coordination is a very important issue. One way to address this issue is through the adoption of a new budgeting system. As a deputy, you should be aware that we are transitioning to a programme method in dealing with the budget. What does this mean? Let’s take education as an example. Funding for education is scattered across many ministries and departments. When it comes to healthcare, you are absolutely right: the funds are also dispersed across ministries and departments. At times, we are not even aware of how much we are spending in a particular area. The point of adopting this project method is to consolidate all activities in any one area into a single programme in order to achieve an overall picture of the situation in, say, healthcare in Russia. Let me reiterate, this should be done across all ministries and departments. There should certainly be a single coordinating unit, in this case, the Ministry of Healthcare. I cannot say right away whether there is the need for a special coordinating unit, but we will return to this issue later out of session and make a proper decision. However, this kind of project budgeting method that is now under consideration by the government should drastically change coordination arrangements. Let me reiterate  that we should consider the need to establish such a special body.

As for the code, I can assure you that they will speed up the adoption of it. The Ministry of Transport will ask them to speed it up, and they will. What is this an issue of? The carrier should certainly not be responsible for deciding for a disabled person whether or not he or she needs an escort. This is a serious issue, and people with disabilities are all very different. There are people who think they can do without an escort when in fact they do need one. The solution should therefore be based on the needs of an individual, not just the interests of the carrier.

Mikhail Terentyev: That is exactly why they came up with this research paper.

Vladimir Putin: I completely agree. I don’t know the details, but I promise that I will give them a push in the right direction. You've done well to have papers drafted in advance. They will have the conclusion ready sometime during the next week. In some cases, you may just need an expert opinion, say, of a doctor…

Mikhail Terentyev: Or air carrier experts.

Vladimir Putin: No, I don’t think we should get air carriers involved. This may just complicate things, because they have their corporate interests to protect. We need an independent… doctor, there should be a medical certificate. I'm not sure yet, because I haven’t seen this research paper. The ministry will complete this work within a week.

Lastly, I promise you that we will make an effort to mention more often the fact that Russia will be holding both Olympic as well as Paralympic Games in 2014. We will do this. It's the right thing to do, you are absolutely right.

Let’s get back to this side. Please, Mr Kibakin.

Mikhail Kibakin (deputy chairman of the Russian public organisation of disabled Afghan war veterans and people with war injuries, “Disabled War Veterans”): Mr Putin,

Vladimir Putin: Please excuse me. I believe that compiling a roster of disability organisations is also a very important proposal.

Tatyana Golikova: Mr Putin, we looked into this at the previous session of the presidium, and you authorised us to maintain a register of socially-oriented non-profit organisations in the areas of healthcare, social support and security, therefore…

Vladimir Putin: This is a very good proposal. Let’s see it through to completion.

Please excuse me, Mr Kibakin.

Mikhail Kibakin: Mr Putin, participants, I represent the Russian public organisation of disabled Afghan war veterans and people with war injuries. I would like to raise an issue that is very important to us. 

Let me start with the good news. Along with all disabled people, I feel very good about the fact that disabled war veterans always lie at the heart of our meetings. We are particularly pleased with progress in the adoption of the law on health damage compensation. That was a blatant injustice, which is now being remedied. Thanks to these discussions, the law on compensation is now in its second reading.

We have seen a lot of positive change within our public organisation after the establishment of the department for disability. Our ongoing contact with people from this department gives us the sense that we are actually participating in legislation concerning people with disabilities.

Now, as for the problems at hand. The targeted government programme and draft laws related to the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities are currently being hotly debated. The problem is that disabled war veterans, people with war injuries and disabled people with a record of meritorious service to the Motherland are not mentioned in any of these laws.

Vladimir Putin: Excuse me. Mr Kibakin, what targeted federal programme in particular are you referring to?

Mikhail Kibakin: The state programme for an accessible environment.

Vladimir Putin: Got it.

Mikhail Kibakin: On several occasions, we have submitted proposals designed to isolate the category of “disabled people with a record of meritorious service to Motherland” as a separate category. It currently encompasses two categories: disabled combatants and disabled war veterans. Unfortunately, traditional approaches…

Vladimir Putin: Excuse me Mr Kibakin, but I do not understand. Why would this matter, if we are talking about an Accessible Environment? We do focus on veterans who were injured on duty, but I do not understand the technical differences between two people who are wheelchair-bound, one of whom as a result of war injuries, and the other for reasons unrelated to war. The access ramp is the same. What’s the difference?

Mikhail Kibakin: I agree.

Vladimir Putin: So what? I don’t understand…

Mikhail Kibakin: If we're talking about physical access, then yes, this is the same. But the Accessible Environment programme is not only about physical access. It includes many aspects of communication and deals with employment issues, production base, and so on.

Vladimir Putin: Okay, I see.

Mikhail Kibakin: So we wanted this category to be included in these documents, because it has the right to be singled out and considered a separate category. The traditional approaches can easily be seen in the programme. For example, there are individual approaches to deal with people who are hearing and visually impaired, and people who have had disabilities since childhood, and this is how it should be. But when we ask for the same considerations for our category, they tell us that the general principles of government policy are based on the social protection of disabled people according to degree of disability and disability group. The greater the degree of disability, the greater social protection is accorded, and so on. In fact, this is not exactly the case, because their reasoning that all measures of social protection for disabled people with a record of meritorious service to Motherland are set forth in the laws on veterans is not quite valid. If there were a separate state veteran programme, then these measures would clearly be part of it. However, I think it is unfair to consider that our category is not part of the general disability problem.

This position is inconsistent with the constitutional principle of the sovereignty of our nation, which among other things, provides for the use of military force. Everyone has clearly heard about the social state or the law-based state. This category has been extensively developed. But if we are talking about a sovereign state, we are also talking about citizens who in the prime of their lives voluntarily put their health and lives at risk for the will of the state. I believe that in this sense, the severity of their injuries cannot be the sole measure in determining the level of state support.

Vladimir Putin: Mr Kibakin, you can stop here. I absolutely agree with you.

Mikhail Kibakin: In that case, can I offer our proposal now?

Vladimir Putin: Yes. I agree completely. I can tell directly that we will return to this issue. I simply did not realise this.

Mikhail Kibakin: Mr Putin, allow me to recap, then. I will even allow myself several…

Vladimir Putin: Please don’t think that I’m interrupting in order to prevent you from having your say. I simply want to make my position clear. I fully agree with you.

Mikhail Kibakin: Mr Putin, on the contrary, I am very pleased, because what I wanted to say may resonate in unison with your comment. We are well aware of the weight of your words at these meetings. As the head of a public organisation for disabled war veterans, I can feel how your words advance our cause. As Lt.-Col (Rt.), I feel this intuitively, and if your words lead to regulations, I am 100% certain that they will find the resources to bring more attention to this problem and identify better ways to address it. We have a draft of your order, and it says clearly “to take the necessary steps to protect the reproductive health of women with disabilities.” It should continue, “to provide support for  disabled people who have served the Fatherland.” This’s all. Thank you very much.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: Mr Putin, may I?

Vladimir Putin: Yes.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: In 2002, when I was a State Duma deputy, I represented  our parliament at the permanent commission of the CIS Interparliamentary Assembly. In this commission, we studied a model draft law on war veterans. It’s interesting to note that it was adopted by the Interparliamentary Assembly and submitted to the State Duma as a recommendation. This model draft law reflects the issues related to people who participated in military operations, served their Fatherland, and parents who have lost their providers. It has a long list of issues. It would be interesting to go back to that law, because this part is first of all the responsibility of the federal centre.

Vladimir Putin: We will do what Mr Kibakin has suggested, we will word it as you have suggested in the list of orders and will work on it.

Vladimir Vshivtsev: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Ms Golikova and the Government Executive Office… Yes, yes. And invite your colleagues from law-enforcement agencies. Let’s think about it together.

Please.

Dmitry Gusev: Good afternoon, Mr Putin. At our last meeting at a conference in Yekaterinburg I forgot to introduce myself. Now I have another opportunity. My name is Dmitry Gusev, and I am a blogger from Yekaterinburg. Last time I told you how we managed to help two people with impaired mobility with the assistance of the internet community. We developed a project with the help of the internet community, collected money and made two wheelchair ramps for certain people.

Vladimir Putin: I do remember.

Dmitry Gusev: Yes, on the left, or to the right of you, up there. When I went to that conference, I was just hoping for some luck and I didn’t actually believe that it was going to help us much. But after the conference, we were contacted by representatives of the Popular Front, of the Sverdlovsk region’s administration, and everything was set in motion, so to say. What do I mean? The first thing that was done was allocating 50,000 roubles with the help of the region’s administration and industrial enterprises, which is enough for another two wheelchair ramps. These are two guys with impaired mobility (shows a picture). They live next to each other. The assembly of one of the ramps will start already next Sunday.

And there has been another change: there were a number of meetings of the regional administration that involved industrial enterprises and the social protection ministry. And they decided that they will enlist the Sverdlovsk Region’s enterprises to manufacture these things in small batches, and they will allocate 13 million roubles from next year’s budget for this purpose. Thank you very much specially for this.

But there might be a problem. If it is done in small batches, that is, to a certain standard, the following situation may arise. This is a standard approach and this is what we suggest (shows pictures that demonstrate the difference between standard ramps and those Gusev has paid for). As Ms Prisetskaya has already said, a ramp is made but it cannot be used. So it should be controlled somehow in the future. This is one thing.

Vladimir Putin: Let’s think how we can implement these necessary – elementary, simple, but necessary – technologies when carrying out this Accessible Environment programme. Let’s think about this together.

Dmitry Gusev: Manufacturing and assembling a ramp is one thing, but getting legal permission is another thing, and it is a huge problem. When we started doing it, we wasted about a month and a half obtaining permission.

Vladimir Putin: I won’t make a final statement right now. Let’s write it down in today’s transcript as an instruction to our colleagues, to agencies, to work together with you. Let them work on it and think about how it can be implemented, because there is a programme, and there are appropriations for it. As I have already said, it is important to spend them wisely.

Dmitry Gusev: Yes, wisely. First of all, if 13 million is really allocated and is spent wisely, it will help a lot of people.

Vladimir Putin: Our programme totals 50 billion roubles.

Dmitry Gusev: But I am talking about our region.

Vladimir Putin: I see. But for the entire country, it is 50 billion till 2015 or 2016. So we will find these 13 million. Again, the important thing is to invest it where it’s needed.

Dmitry Gusev: Yes, so that it doesn’t end up as in this case, but so that it really helps.

Vladimir Putin: Certainly.

Dmitry Gusev: And special thanks to you for getting involved in our situation and bringing about this change.

Vladimir Putin: Thank you for your initiative. You could have written about anything on your blogs, but you have chosen to focus on a good and necessary thing. Thank you very much. Yes, please.

Mikhail Terentyev: Mr Putin, here is another proposal. We must enlist public organisations in coordination councils in municipalities that will decide how it is best to make ramps in various locations.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, that’s right.

Ms Orochko, please.

Yelena Orochko (head of the Dogs as Helpers for the Disabled training centre for service dogs): I represent the charity Dogs as Helpers for the Disabled. Our centre has been around for over ten years. We offer social rehabilitation for the disabled with the help of service dogs. We work in three areas. The first one is guide dogs for people with impaired vision; the second is therapy for special-needs children using dogs; and the third area, which is not very developed in our country, is dogs as assistants for people with other disabilities, notably, for people with in wheelchairs.

Since its foundation, our centre has trained over 60 dogs. Our organisation is very small and, because of that, we can take a very targeted and individual approach to helping the disabled. Our work provides comprehensive rehabilitation for people with impaired vision. When we training dogs, we take into account the needs and traits of each person and train a dog under a special programme. When we hand the animal over, we use a psychologist, a rehabilitation therapist, in order to not just give a person an animal helper, but to give him or her the possibility to really move freely, to give them all the opportunities to get rehabilitation. I can give you an example. An 18-year girl in Moscow used to have to walk with her grandmother or mother all her life, but after she got our guide dog, she began studying, she will soon graduate from a pedagogical institute, and she goes to school across the town, so it has changed her life drastically.

We are developing a very important and unique programme for our country, canine therapy. It helps children that have been diagnosed with autism, cerebral palsy, and gross developmental delays. We have had amazing results, something we did not expect when we started the programme. After undergoing a series of individual classes, these children start walking, talking and going to ordinary schools.

We actively involve volunteers in our work. We think that it is important not only because they allow us to save money (this is crucial for us), but also because they serve as an example that anyone can become a charity provider and help other people. There are no special requirements for it, only the desire to help. Of course, the bulk of the work is done by professionals – trainers and teachers with extensive experience. Our senior trainer has 30 years of experience in the field. I cannot say that we do not have problems. We do. The main one is our waiting list, which is growing at a disastrous speed. A person that turns to us today will get his or her guide dog or therapist in three years or even later, because we cannot work fast and, of course, we don’t have enough money. We are a charity and are financed only by donors who do not always respond to the degree we would like them to.

Vladimir Putin: Have you received any of our grants?

Yelena Orochko: No.

Vladimir Putin: We will give you some.

Tatyana Golikova: Mr Putin, going back to the decision you have made. In this year’s budget, I believe the Finance Ministry has set aside 900 million roubles to support socially oriented non-profit organisations. I understand that the money will be distributed in some time, and then there will be a possibility…

Vladimir Putin: Fine. But it could take till the end of the year. It should not be so. Mr Siluanov, please, speed up this process. Ms Golikova, please, take down all the contact information. It is a good cause.

How many people do you employ?

Yelena Orochko: We employ five people, but even they don’t work full time, because we cannot guarantee their wages.

Vladimir Putin: And how long is the waiting list for dogs?

Yelena Orochko: 35 people for 3.5 years.

Vladimir Putin: 35 people?

Yelena Orochko: Yes. We are a small organisation, and we do not advertise our work.

Vladimir Putin: I see.

Yelena Orochko: Because that would only result in an even longer waiting list.

Vladimir Putin: We will definitely help you.

Yelena Orochko: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Do you want to say something? Please, Mr Klepikov.

Alexander Klepikov (first deputy chairman of the public organisation the All-Russian Society of the Disabled): Let me thank you for your help to our public organisation. It has allowed us to hire more people and keep on the ones we had. But I have asked for the floor not only to thank you. Our participation in the programme has made clear a problem that is typical for all companies and public organisations for the disabled. On the one hand, we ask for modernisation in programmes, this is an objective demand of the market, right? On the other hand, growth is the only criterion for these programmes. And you should know that modernisation does not always result in increased production, it may simply change the product. Very often modernisation reduces the number of jobs due to automation and other technology. So we would like that programme that is in place now and future employment programmes to have as a criterion not only increasing the number of jobs, but also preserving and modernising existing jobs. Because we have, for example, 15 disabled people working, and we’ve added two. Do we leave the 15 old ones and modernise the two new ones? Or add the new to the old? So, employment should be preserved and after these jobs have been technically modernised, their number can be increased on a new technological basis. Why am I saying all this? Because a majority of our companies, as you know, are small and medium-sized companies with small, rundown fixed assets. So we now have the problem of preserving it and only then increasing it, instead of just increasing. Because we get the money for this, but the Audit Chamber sees an increase in investment and says, “We understand it, but you cannot invest this money here.”

And another thing. The programme should take into account that enterprises of public organisations for the disabled have problems with accessibility. For example, eight disabled people work in the management of a factory. If we invest in their working places directly, it is correct and it is counted, but if we pave the road and make a wheelchair ramp for them, improve the conditions for them, we are told that this is a different area. And we have to argue. You see, life puts some problems differently, and I would like it to be so that when we design and implement a programme, we…

Vladimir Putin: Are you talking about the Accessible Environment programme now?

Alexander Klepikov: Accessible Environment and the social programme that was before it.

Tatyana Golikova: The programme for reducing tension on the labour market.

Alexander Klepikov: In 2006-2010. Both there and here growth parameters are used. But growth, it is not extensive. And you know about our technical potential!

Vladimir Putin: It was especially relevant during the crisis and the serious unemployment, so growth of the workforce was emphasised.

Alexander Klepikov: In this connection, I would like to say that support should be comprehensive, not just financial. For example, two years ago you issued an instruction making our companies equal to small and medium-sized firms. The document was drafted, but the second reading has still not taken place, it is still with the government. We would like this matter to be given an jumpstart.

Vladimir Putin: Why did we put them on the same level as small and medium-sized companies?

Alexander Klepikov: Perhaps because they are small by all technical criteria (revenues, profit, scale), but there is a restriction that was adopted in the 1990s, under which small businesses are companies where less than 25% belongs to the government or public organisations (I mean big organisations). This cuts off the disabled, and because of that, they cannot put us on the same level as them now.

Vladimir Putin: Fine, let’s go back to it later. Remind me.

Tatyana Golikova: I think it is about the law that consists of two parts: on property and on preferences for small and medium-sized businesses.

Alexander Klepikov: Yes, the programme for small businesses, nothing more. But they seem to be relevant due to their technical parameters. Let’s work in the same manner, following the same parameters.

Vladimir Putin: OK. Ms Naigovzina (Nelli Naigovzina, head of the Department of Social Development of the Russian Government Executive Office), look into it with Ms Nabiullina (Elvira Nabiullina) and submit a proposal.

Nelli Naigovzina: There was a meeting on this issue, and it was decided to support this draft law. At present, reviews are being collected, and the law commission will meet on [August] 29.

Vladimir Putin: Please remind me if there are any delays.

Nelli Naigovzina: Certainly.

Alexander Klepikov: As to social protection in general, I would like to speak very briefly on an issue, since everyone has to go and is tired. In my opinion, it is time to restore the state rehabilitation service. The idea is not just to add a rehabilitation expert to the Medical and Social Evaluation Commission who would help to select a wheelchair. We need a specialist like in Canada or in the United States. We have participated in a programme with them and we know their practices. We need a specialist to accompany the disabled in life, who is trained to do so. He doesn’t deal only with evaluation. The commission is about evaluation. There is some disagreement on this, but I, for one, believe that rehabilitation specialists should be removed from the commission, because these are different things: evaluation is evaluation and rehabilitation is rehabilitation. But here, if an expert is added, the problem is considered solved. We have a specialist, and he will do everything. But this is not so. They have to teach a disabled personm to use a wheelchair, to live in a family, to adjust his or her home, to go to school. A disabled person, especially a seriously disabled person, should be first of all accompanied by a specialist. Public organisations can only offer assistance. They already share their experience. How do they share? I meet someone and ask, “How did you do that?” And he says, “So and so.” This is good. But we need the government, we need public organisations, we need them teamed up. This is what I wanted to say.

Vladimir Putin: I actually spoke about it in my introductory remarks. I fully agree with you on this subject.

As to the law, I want to focus our attention on it, not to let it slip. Let’s record it in our resolution for today, so that it doesn’t get lost. This is right.

Colleagues, do you know what I want to say in conclusion? Overall, we deal with issues related to support to the disabled, to the physically challenged under several programmes and almost all the time. Almost all the time! What do I want to emphasise now? However strange it is for myself, such meetings are always very useful, because direct contact with people that deal with these problems and have encountered certain difficulties in life themselves makes these problems clearer, better understood and more pressing. I strongly hope that we will continue to move ahead together in resolving all the issues and all the difficult situations the disabled people in our country encounter. Let me repeat that there are 13 million of them in the country. Together we must and will do everything to ensure that they feel like worthy and full-fledged citizens of the Russian Federation.

Thank you all very much for today’s meeting.