Transcript of the beginning of the meeting:

Vladimir Putin: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I’m very glad to see you. Our meeting is held at the initiative of some of those present here today. Despite the uproar caused by the State Duma elections, I asked all of my employees to leave our people in peace during the holidays, not to torment anyone anymore and to give people an opportunity to celebrate the New Year and Christmas.

But we are inevitably approaching the next election cycle, in the presidential election campaign. With this in mind I consider it my duty, given that we are developing, the country and the world around us are developing, bringing about new challenges and setting new tasks for us…. At the same time we have the same basic values and fundamental ideas that we formulated several years ago. Even during the crisis we constructed our policy so as not to deviate strategically from these basic values and fundamental ideas. But let me repeat again – the global economic crisis as well as developments both international and domestic, require us to respond and adjust. This is what we are doing. I consider it my duty to set forth some fundamental ideas in an article that I hope you have read. I believe these are important ideas in the context of the forthcoming presidential campaign, and have deemed it necessary to present them for public judgment. I’d like to say straight away that this is just the beginning. I’m planning to publish a number of articles setting forth my systemic approaches to economic advancement, development of the social sphere and international affairs. I hope that this will be discussed just as actively in the media so that citizens can see in detail what past colleagues and I have done and what I plan to accomplish with future colleagues in all these areas that are priorities for every citizen.

And today we can informally discuss all those ideas contained in the first article as well as all the other points that, in your view, are of interest to us all. This is all that I wanted to say in the beginning. I do not want this discussion to turn into a monologue. I would like to informally discuss the issues and the points raised in the article, and perhaps we can go beyond that and discuss some other problems. Please, go ahead.  

Konstantin Remchukov (General Director, Editor-in-Chief of Nezavisimaya Gazeta): Mr Putin, as I was reading your article, I noticed that when you talk about future development you are more confident when you speak about state finances. You say that you will support local initiatives; you say “we will help you” fight local bureaucracy and so on. Meanwhile I think that a modern state, at least in the 21^st century, should be based on the concept that the engine of transformation and innovation is private capital. And the majority of those 25 million jobs that you mention will be created in the private sector. But you rarely mention the private sector, maybe once or twice. You do not emphasise it.

I think the state’s responsibility is to create the right conditions. What are these conditions? Two things, primarily – the first is a fair judicial system and the second is a competitive environment. An emphasis on these things, I think, would show that we are in the 21^st century, because when you speak about bridges and roads (I don’t mean in the article only but in general) it sounds like Roosevelt’s New Deal, which was 70-80 years ago.  Of course, we need roads and airports, but it is market infrastructure that attracts global capital. Private companies have $2 trillion in US bank accounts (I have just returned from the US). These companies just do not know where they should invest. So Russia should compete not for the sake of the state budget, which is always limited and small, but for the trillions of dollars belonging to Russian and global businesses. Do you plan, maybe in future articles, as you said, to focus on these points: the judicial system, a competitive environment, the private sector as an engine of change?

Vladimir Putin: I was working on precisely this issue before I came here today.

Konstantin Remchukov: You were promoting private businesses?

Vladimir Putin: No, I was formulating our objectives in these areas. I was sitting at my desk, working on this.

In this regard, in order not to rush ahead and get into what will be published for general discussion in a while, I would like to say the following. First, I agree with everything you say. What are the unique features of our country? Where might our difficulties lie? Do you know what they stem from? They stem from the socialist mentality in the country, and the problems were aggravated in the 1990s, when (private enterprise) was unfortunately discredited due to dishonest privatisation. What happened?  Everybody was living in equal conditions, and the next day some benefitted from connections to the authorities, to the feeder, and gained from the state fortunes worth billions. And a great number of our citizens think that the current injustice is based on this unfair division of state property. One day everybody was equal, and the next someone with access to power gained billions, as I said, and now somebody else has to work for this new billionaire. In some market economies, such fortunes were built up for generations, and in Russia they emerged from murky shares-for-loans auctions, which even a well-educated person can’t understand. And, of course, this must change. The majority of our citizens must accept in their hearts and minds that indeed the engine of national development is private enterprise and, naturally, the fair division of state resources and state funds as well as the various tools of development. I think that this is our common goal. This is the goal of the state and the goal of the media. This is also the task of the business community because when people see that instead of being invested in the development of Russian sport, hundreds of millions and billions are spent on purchasing sports clubs abroad after this unfair privatisation, and that money is also being spent on exorbitant consumption, including abroad, then this increases the negative attitude among the public towards the business community. It certainly does not create a favourable environment.

But I repeat that corruption and other factors linked with the state are present here. I think, however, that the public perception of the business community is a key problem. And much still has to be accomplished here. The state, the public, the media and the business community must act accordingly, so that the public comes to realise that a conscientious attitude towards one’s work is the same impetus for development as the conscientious work of ordinary people. It is even unclear what is more important there. Let us not go into what is more important or less important here, but this is a major component of national development. This generates new jobs, including 25 million high-tech jobs with competitive salaries. It also creates social guarantees. See for yourselves: over 30% of Russians think they are members of the middle class. Analysts estimate that the middle class accounts for some 25%-30% of the Russian population. In the early 2000s, the middle class was just 10% of this country’s population. As prosperity increases, the attitude towards the business community will also change. But I repeat that there are many factors involved in rectifying this situation.

Konstantin Remchukov: All of this is one side of the story: the psychological perception, injustice, the attitude towards private capital and get-rich-quick schemes. But what about the factors linked with a fair judicial system?

Vladimir Putin: Of course. Of course, this is something we must work on. And I repeat that we don’t want to rush ahead here, but we must eliminate the accusatory bias in the work of investigatory agencies, the investigators, preliminary inquests and prosecutors’ offices. We have a great deal to accomplish here. Notably, we must stipulate the presumption of honesty and innocence, rather than guilt, in the business sphere, as well. This certainly needs to be done. Quite possibly, we will have to amend the existing legislation accordingly, so that this country will have no pretext for transforming commercial disputes into criminal cases. But I’m rushing ahead; there’s no point talking about it now. Go ahead, please.

Valery Fadeyev (editor-in-chief of Expert magazine): I would like to say a few words about education, regarding your published text. This country is dominated by a pragmatic idea implying that education as a system which primarily services the economy. Therefore, there is demand for workers, technicians and engineers. In your article, you note that education has an unconditional value, and that, consequently, the state and the economic system must adapt to the people’s needs, rather than the other way round. In my opinion, this runs counter to the ministry’s concept and to the ideas dominating the expert community. As I see it, you are trying to change this around, if I understand you correctly.

Vladimir Putin: You know, that is not quite the case. Certainly, administrative bodies always tend towards a degree of inertia. However, the ministries and departments responsible for the education process and its organisation are making efforts to meet popular demand.

Do you know what the latest surveys reveal? We have just taken a look. Let me share these curious findings with you. People were asked: “If your children had a choice between enrolling at a vocational college or a university, and if vocational college graduates had higher incomes than university degree holders, would you be happy for them to get a vocational college degree or would you want them to go further and get a university degree? Most people said they would prefer for their children to get a university degree. I believe we must take advantage of this trend and the drive of our young people.

I don’t think that there will be any negative consequences if university graduates make up 80% of the labour market. When we talk about 25 million high-tech jobs today, the creation of such jobs or their conversion into 25 million high-tech jobs, then, as you know, employers currently require people with university degrees. I frequently visit production facilities, and I can see what complicated equipment and machine-tools are used there. Naturally, such companies need university degree holders, and their employees are happy about their careers. They get competitive pay, they are entitled to solid social security packages, and they feel that their knowledge is in high demand at such companies. I don’t think there is any contradiction between the current policy of education agencies and what I have written. However, a certain fundamental shift must be made. Instead of demanding that people change, we must overhaul the economy in line with their requirements, and this meets our national interests.

Vladimir Kulistikov (director general, NTV television network): May I take the floor?

Vladimir Putin: Go ahead, please.

Vladimir Kulistikov: Mr Putin, your article outlines your election programme, and your future articles will also probably mention it. At the same time, the people now prioritise the way the election will be conducted. I think most people will vote for you on March 4. How will you convince my friend, Alexei Venediktov, editor-in-chief of the Ekho Moskvy radio station, that your victory was fair and square?

Vladimir Putin:  I don’t think I will need to prove anything. As a citizen of the Russian Federation, Venediktov has the right to ask this question. But I believe another issue is more important. This process must be duly organised. I have already said this, and I can reiterate that I prioritise the opportunity of tackling the challenges facing the nation, rather than the fact of staying in power. I have mentioned this in my article, and I can tell you again: I believe that our challenge is to transform the Russian state into a viable organism, a living entity that will be able to adapt to the changing world. Today’s world, in which this entity is developing, is fraught with numerous threats. This entity must be prepared to withstand any external shocks, and it must completely guarantee this country’s sovereignty. This entity must be stable, and it must also develop. Moreover, it must be capable of improve the living standards in the decades to come. I think that I have written in my article that I consider it my objective to tackle these challenges in the next six years. How will the process be organised? I have voiced my proposals, and I’m ready for maximum transparency. I believe that work at such a level can be successful only if one has popular trust and support. Only then can these plans be put into practice. If there is no support, there is no point in starting. Therefore, it is vitally important for me to make sure I have this support. I want our elections to be transparent and fair to the greatest possible extent. If the people entrust this country, Russia, its security and economic development to someone else, then let it be, and let him work. And I will make every effort to make sure there is maximum possible transparency in this sphere.

I have proposed setting up web cameras. We have experience of this: I had ordered the installation of web cameras during the construction of homes for wildfire victims in some Russian regions. I found this measure to be quite effective. I could come anytime, push a button, click a mouse and see what was going on at all construction sites. I could see where work was in progress and where it had stopped. I could pick up the phone, call someone and ask them why they were not working. That’s how it was, and it worked well. I hope that using web cameras in this case will also prove effective. Yes, this requires substantial funding. The minister has told me that it amounts to 12 billion or 14 billion roubles. Mr Shchegolev (Igor Shchegolev, Minister of Communications and Mass Media), what is the final cost estimate?

Igor Shchegolev: Twelve billion roubles in budgetary allocations.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, but this money will not go to waste. It will be possible to use the equipment that has been purchased for use during the election campaign in education and in other sectors. Therefore, this money will not be wasted.

On the other hand, I think that we must spend this money in order to rule out any allegations about non-transparent and unfair elections, etc. I certainly don’t need this. Obviously, some opposition supporters will claim that the elections were unfair. Although they had personally voted, they will say that they didn’t cast their ballots. But that is opposition and a fact of political competition. Such people have always been and will always be around.

We will take their opinion into account and treat them with respect but they must also consider the opinion of the majority because democracy, as I’ve written in the article, above all reflects the expectations of the majority. Please, go ahead.

Alexei Venediktov (editor-in-chief of the Ekho Moskvy radio station): Thank you, Mr Putin, first of all for having agreed to meet us so quickly. I will speak at length to give you time to eat but I won’t be too long.

Vladimir Putin: I've learned that it's better not to chew in front of a camera, or your fellow journalists will be sure to represent this. I’ve been through this already.

Alexei Venediktov: I had forgotten about that.

Vladimir Kulistikov: Besides, it’s the Eve of the Epiphany today.

Vladimir Putin: Indeed, it's a big holiday for Christians. Let me wish them a happy Epiphany.

Alexei Venediktov: Thank you. I’d like to support your position on education. I'm more closely aligned with your view and the opinion of Minister Fursenko than with what Valera (Valery Fadeyev) has said. I think that this reform is very important and must continue. I hope that the people who are involved in it will also stay on.

This is what I’d like to say: when you were replying to the question of my friend Vladimir (Vladimir Kulistikov), you had already started explaining your views as a presidential candidate. You began to do this with this first article, and I think this is important and the right thing to do. It is also important that you said this will not be the only article. Indeed, otherwise too many questions would remain unanswered, above all the main question: why is he returning? What will he bring that is new upon his return? I believe you will answer these questions in subsequent articles. I’m sorry, but it is necessary that we discuss these articles not only with your supporters who, as you know from your presidency, will say and have already began saying, great, brilliant, this is our manifesto, let’s go! – but also with critics of your articles because they are always able to look at the same problems from a different angle.

Vladimir Putin: You are here and we are discussing this with you now. You have a critical attitude towards it, don’t you?

Alexei Venediktov: Yes, I meant…Today I simply…

Vladimir Putin: As you see, this is exactly what I’m doing.

Alexei Venediktov: Thank you very much.

Vladimir Putin: You're welcome.

Alexei Venediktov: By the way, I saw a wonderful quote from the former Finnish prime minister today on the Gaidar Forum’s site. You’d love it if you haven’t already heard it. He said that in politics, as in ice hockey, a person must place himself not where the puck already is, but in the place where the puck is heading, that is, forward. I think this is a very precise definition for politicians. He’s done a good job…

Vladimir Putin: He's just mocking us because they have won all the hockey games against us recently. So he cites examples from a field in which they are champions.

Alexei Venediktov: In this case we are going for the puck that is already in place rather than the one that is moving…

Vladimir Kulistikov: Someone is simply putting the puck in place for them.

Alexei Venediktov: Sure. It's a common story.

Look, you have brought up the elections now. This is very important with regard to the legality of the elections, above all for the nation… Our Western partners are a different story…I’m talking about this nation – people must believe in the legitimacy of the presidential elections… This is not a political matter. This is something that we all need: honest elections. You need them, all candidates need them and we voters need them. As you know, there is a League for Honest Elections. There are no politicians in it – this is a league of voters, writers – Akunin, Ulitskaya and Bykov, to name a few. Why don’t you meet with them? Not all of them love you and you probably don’t love them all too much…

Vladimir Putin: So, some of them still love me?

Alexei Venediktov: Probably, someone does.

Vladimir Putin: You said “not all of them love you” which means some of them do.

Alexei Venediktov: Yes, surely.

Vladimir Putin: You know, we recently presented government awards to journalists and, as far as I know, we invited all of the people you mentioned. They did not come. They say that they want a discussion and that the authorities do not hear them. We invited them but they wouldn’t come. So what do they want? Are they saying that they want a discussion or that they don’t want to discuss anything? I'm not opposed to a discussion. We are ready – myself personally and my colleagues – to meet and talk with them. We have invited them more than once, including some of those who have just been mentioned by name. We have done this more than once! And they have not come even once!

I understand that there are systemic matters… I think someone wrote on your site “Only trash votes for Putin; as for his article I didn’t read it.” What kind of discussion is this and what kind of attitude is it towards the majority of our people? What is this? What can you talk about with a person who thinks that the majority – and the majority has voted for me, at least so far – is trash and who does not even want to read the article? How can you discuss anything with a person like that?

Alexei Venediktov: You are a presidential candidate. You have to reassure your voters. I think there needs to be a discussion about this, Mr Putin.

Vladimir Putin: I've been inviting them but they don’t show up.

Реплика: I think, Alexei, there is a pipe…

Alexei Venediktov: I don’t have a pipe.

Vladimir Putin: I’m really not against this. You know that people proceed from the most varied considerations. For instance, we are all fond of Akunin. He writes very interesting things (at least interesting for me because I love Russian history). His writings have been made into films. To my knowledge, he is an ethnic Georgian. I understand that he could fail to perceive Russia’s actions during the crisis in the Caucasus, in fact, during the armed conflict between Georgia and Russia when Russia had to defend South Ossetians and our peacekeepers that had been attacked and killed. Many of our people were killed there. And what were we supposed to do? People, including ethnic Georgians residing in Russia and I’m sure many Georgians living in Georgia, their homeland, understand the motives of our conduct. And what were we supposed to do? It was not we who violated the agreements sealed in international legal documents! What were we supposed to do? This is the first point.

Secondly, I didn’t even suspect that we would turn to this issue but you know that the problem of U.S. missile defence is permanently on the agenda today. You know, Alexei, we cannot afford to be indifferent to where these systems will appear – closer or further away from our borders. We cannot be indifferent to whether they will eventually appear in Georgia or not. Will we have to target our strike systems at Georgian territory? Can you imagine how horrible this would be? And do we have any guarantee that this won’t happen? No! We offered our Georgian colleagues this or that but they are refusing everything. And on top of all that, they make acts of aggression against South Ossetia. And what are we to do?

We are prepared to talk with the Georgian public, to find a way out if they want to talk with us. Many of them do want to talk, including the Georgian opposition. They are coming to us. They took part in the foundation stone ceremony for the monument to the Georgians who died during World War II, the Great Patriotic War. They also attended the unveiling of this monument. This is a sign of respect for the Georgian people on behalf of Russia. I’m sure that this did not go unnoticed on the part of the Georgian public. People were bound to pay attention to this. But a considerable part of the Georgian diaspora in Moscow also understands us.

We are prepared to discuss this and all other problems with the so-called non-systemic opposition that is guided by some other considerations. I have mentioned missile defence. Regrettably, for lack of time I seldom watch television. I read digests and I must admit, I seldom listen to your radio.

Alexei Venediktov: Too bad!

Vladimir Putin: Don’t rush, that's not all. Don’t rush.

Alexei Venediktov: Or maybe it's a good thing?

Vladimir Putin: Don’t rush, I'll tell you everything in a moment. Not long ago Mr Medvedev and I were in the south. We inspected Olympic facilities and went skiing for a while. Before going to bed (or early in the morning) I switched on the radio and got your station. I don’t even know who was speaking… I listened to them and thought they were talking utter nonsense. I didn’t even know this was your radio station, honestly.

Alexei Venediktov: This is also bad.

Vladimir Putin: Well, maybe it's bad and maybe it's good, but I’m being honest with you.

Alexei Venediktov: I’m listening.

Vladimir Putin: They were discussing missile defence. They were just ranting adn raving, honestly… Where did these arguments come from? They said it was not important for us how far from our borders these missile interceptors will be. Why is this not important? How can it not be important? If they are closer to our borders our land-based missiles will be within their range and these interceptors will destroy them. If they are deployed further away they won’t come within this range and won’t be able to take down our missiles. How can this not be important? This is a question of principle. It is extremely important!

Or another argument. Ostensibly, Americans are offering to work together with us on missile defence and Russia is refusing to do so. But it is we that are offering and they are refusing! Not only are they not permitting us, they are not allowing their European allies either. They agree on the deployment of radar stations but don’t give anyone access to control them. This is so simple. I was lying in bed, either at night or in the morning – I don’t remember now – and thinking: this is not information; what they are presenting serves the foreign policy interests of one state against another – Russia. I’m telling you this as an expert because I have been studying this issue for many years. There are some elementary things and it is impossible to be ignorant of them. I don’t believe they are ignorant. I think they are doing this on the Russian taxpayers’ money. It's unfathomable to me how this could happen.

This would never have happened in the United States. They would never let this happen. I remember how the Fox TV channel covered the events in South Ossetia when two women – a small girl and her aunt – described what had happened there. When they realised that these women supported Russia’s actions, do you remember what happened next? They started clucking, sniffling and coughing – sorry, we are at the table now – but what didn't they do! 

Serving Russia’s interests as against America on some government-owned channel is unthinkable. I cannot even imagine this – it's simply impossible. And you're talking about freedom of speech. Where is it if not here? But I think this is indecent. Please, go ahead.

By the way, whom will you support at the elections?

Alexei Venediktov: Mr Putin, I haven’t been to a voting station since 1996.

Vladimir Putin: Why not?

Alexei Venediktov: I will explain why.

Vladimir Putin: And you have taken offense at what I said. I can see it on your face. This is a pity.

Alexei Venediktov: Yes, I have taken offense. I will tell you later.

Vladimir Putin: And I have no hard feelings against you when you cover me with excrement from morning till night. I say a couple of words and you are already offended.

Alexei Venediktov: I was joking, I'm not offended…

Vladimir Putin: Well I’m not joking.