Transcript:

Remark: We are the extraordinary parent committee. Extraordinary – that's how we’ve labelled ourselves.

Vladimir Putin: We love all things extraordinary, don't we? Simply say extraordinary parent committee, abbreviated Cheka.

Remark: Parent committee.

Remark: If you notice, it's not we that…

Vladimir Putin: No, it's just this time that you have. Okay, let's talk without any written correspondence, talk directly. What specifically are your concerns? You know, this served to jump-start the dialogue about the hockey club. Mr Tikhonov (Vladimir Tikhonov – honorary president of the CSKA hockey club) came to me, concerned about the fact that the hockey club is on its last legs, and it urgently needs help, because it is almost out of funding, and its material and manufacturing base is deteriorating. We, of course, started looking for such opportunities, engaged our energy companies in the process and negotiated a deal with Rosneft, in which Rosneft must, no, could support a hockey club. I know that this is associated with the renovation of the Ice Palace. Today, I was talking on the phone with Tatiana Tarasova, and knowing her concern – we had talked in detail about it.

But, in order for our meeting not to be a monologue, let me hear you first, and together we'll see what those threats are, and agree in advance on how we reduce these risks to zero. I don’t believe anyone present thinks that by saving one sport, we're going to mess up some others. No one wants to do this! If you see that there are some threats, let's discuss them now and find a solution. If you please.

Representative of the parent committee: Thank you, Mr Putin, we are very pleased that you responded so quickly. It is very surprising. Thank you very much.

The crux of the problem is that the parents of our school's children were in a panic yesterday – panic is exactly the word that describes their state. Why? We are still only operating on hearsay, but the rumours are so insidious that it's resulted in a state of emergency. There is an idea to create a private hockey club – a robust one, which would carry on the traditions. We do not even discuss it – surely it is right. But around the Ice Palace, which is expected to be home to the hockey club, just 10 metres away, on the perimeter, there are a few buildings that today are the basis, the fundamental basis of our reserve – which the Defence Ministry calls a reserve. These are our children – children who are the champions of the future, and perhaps there is even a future president among them.

Vladimir Putin: Certainly.

Representative of the parent committee: I'm hoping it will be my son.

You don't need to work in construction to understand that if the Ice Palace will be under major renovation, it will turn into a pit, and utility lines will therefore be disconnected, to the extent that the walls of the building may crumble and the entrances will be blocked. Everyone knows what a construction site is – this is the source of our concern. So today we are discussing two ideas with parents. The first is radical – do nothing and leave everything as it is. If Rosneft wants, let it renovate a little. The second idea is – if they start to build something, this should in no way harm anyone, not throw the baby out with bathwater, in this case the ice out with the children.

Vladimir Putin: I want to tell you the following. Because you're the chairman of the Cheka, I will refer to you as Mr Dzerzhinsky. More recently, the Defence Ministry was going to definitively close CSKA and did not do this only because the government objected for some reason, and there was no extraordinary committee then. The defence minister actually came and said, we are closing this non-core asset, and we do not believe that the Defence Ministry should maintain this facility. Then we told them that this was impossible, and agreed with them that the club would continue with a certain amount of funding from the Defence Ministry. That’s the first thing.

Second, Rosneft did not initiate the renovation of the Ice Palace. And besides, if you ask the president of Rosneft, he honestly does not want to do this very much. This is an initiative of hockey players, especially Viktor Tikhonov. He came to me with this concern. And then we saddled Rosneft with this social burden. If we agree to do nothing, Mr Khudainatov (Eduard Khudainatov, President of Rosneft) will get up, embrace and kiss us, and, loudly banging his shoes, will skate into his office.

Third. I have already said and I think that no one should suspect us of wanting to do it at the expense of other sports. But when I asked my colleagues to see what is happening in this arena, whether it could still remain intact... It was built in 1991. Of course, it will remain intact some more, but if we want to develop something there, we need to do something. You see, in India there is a specific legislative procedure for working with real estate, and there, until the house collapses, no one can repair and renovate. Really, that's no exaggeration. In some parts of New Delhi, everything is in this state. And why not? That's how the law is.

In principle, you and I could make any decision. We came up with this, because organisers from the world of sport came to us and asked for assistance. We were ready to refuse – if you please, we will not do anything. There is another option – helping hockey players restore the team, because CSKA is one of the name brands of of Soviet and Russian sport in general and of hockey in particular. It was champion of the USSR something like 20 times and won some Euro Cups.

Remark: It won everything.

Vladimir Putin: Yes. In today's environment, keeping a professional team afloat costs about $70 million per year, and the Defence Ministry can't afford it. We can't allocate $70 million per year from the state defence budget in order to support a hockey team. And you can't organise a high-performance team in any other way, otherwise they won’t be competitive with the NHL, and all the major players will leave. Simply put, we must proceed from reality. And we all can't close the borders and keep people here on the circuit. So we need to pay them.

And to pay them, you need a source of funding, you need a professional club, so when we asked Rosneft to explore this opportunity, they came to us and said, yes, we're ready. But then we have to control the cash flow. We can't just fund it, and that's it. I'm telling you like it is. Let us then create a professional club. Let us become members.

In addition to the current annual funding, we need to be ready to establish... Then we need a good club, and it should have modern facilities. And then we must fix all of this old stuff. I talked with Tarasova today on the phone – she's away for a short while on family matters – I asked her what concerns the skaters have. She told me that on the second floor there is a training rink, where children practice. I said, yes, we know – and the Defence Ministry knows this – that if we need to, we will fund this part from the budget. Before we renovate a large skating rink, we will build a training facility for the figure skaters.

Remark: Meaning that we'll have our own separate rink?

Vladimir Putin: The separate rink will be next door. The Defence Ministry has a small plot of land there.

Tolya, come over here and sit down. Hello (addressing Anatoly Serdyukov – Russian Defence Minister). The Defence Ministry has a small piece of land. Is that right?

Anatoly Serdyukov: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: And the Defence Ministry itself has already said that it is willing to invest in and build a separate training facility for skaters. If necessary, we will help and support it.

Remark: And keep the old one.

Vladimir Putin: Which old one?

Remark: The current one.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, of course. We'll certainly keep the old one, but what I mean is that the Large Ice Palace has a second floor where you can practice too. To compensate for this loss, we will build a new training facility next door – a training rink. It would be very close, adjacent right?

Remark: Yes.

Vladimir Putin: We should build another ice rink on this property. I asked Ms Tarasova (Tatiana Tarasova – Merited Coach of the USSR in figure skating), “Do skaters have other concerns?” She said, “No. If you do this, then we will be happy.” Moreover, a new modern training facility will be built.

When we talked about the land that could be allocated for the newly formed hockey club, the renovated one, there still is another small building...

Remark: The health centre.

Vladimir Putin: The health centre. Rosneft is willing to construct a 2,000-square-meter dedicated medical centre for the CSKA sports club at its own expense, separate from that of the hockey players. This will be a modern medical facility that will serve the rest of the CSKA complex and the CSKA club.

Finally, the next issue. The CSKA club – at my suggestion, the Defence Ministry should define it – is not excluded from the newly formed hockey club CSKA, and is allowed to be a co-founder of the club, enter the property there and be co-founder of a new hockey club along with Rosneft. So we are not throwing it away, it is not going away; and no one there, except CSKA and the carrier of the financial bliss of petrodollars in the form of Rosneft, will show up there. We believe that this should be transparent, clear and should function effectively. As for other concerns...

Remark: The judo athletes, in particular.

Vladimir Putin: Yes.

Remark: And not only that, the grounds, the tennis courts...

Vladimir Putin: Tennis players, judo athletes and kickboxers.

Remark: Swimming, gymnasts.

Remark: Fencing.

Vladimir Putin: No one is going to touch swimming and so on. Moreover, of course, the construction companies and architects must plan a way to renovate the facility that will not disrupt the normal sessions of all the other activities at the CSKA club. Listen, but if we don't do anything... We can refuse to do anything.

Then meet with Tikhonov and say, Mr Tikhonov, we will not do anything, do what you've been doing until the day the club dies. But we are ready. Of course, I agree with you – you have to do it in such a way as to not disturb the others and compensate where there is a loss. I think it's better to go this way, and agree in advance on the forms of compensation – we are also ready for this.

So, I think you just need to keep it under control at the next level. And the newly formed club, and I reiterate that this is CSKA and Rosneft, will have to do it publicly, clearly and in such a way as not to interfere with the activities of the other sports. And where there is indeed a loss, it is necessary to compensate – I named this form of compensation.

Moreover, I promise you that I'll take control of this so that the old training rink for figure skating, the existing ice arena, is not destroyed and you are able to train there until a new training rink is built.

Remark: Perhaps we are a bit nervous, because we still do not really understand what will happen, because we were told initially we would have 15,000 square metres, and then they said we would have even more... You see, this is such a mess! And, of course, now you are involved: I value your promises highly because you have given us a gift. So now I have heard some specifics. But I know that the tennis players are still worried because the courts are being demolished. To me, your word is your bond. I've heard it myself, and I have calmed down now.

Vladimir Putin: Let's talk about the tennis players, shall we? This part of the facility is located between the Ice Palace – I know this plan, yes – the health centre and the club – there is an open court there. I was told that this is a small area. But if you and I are serious about this, we must understand that if we want to do something new, there needs to be some kind of land for it.

We discussed another option – there is another building on the other side. There is a cold storage building and Mercedes dealership there. So, let us use it – not us, but the hockey club – this part along with the cold storage building and the Mercedes showroom. But CSKA doesn’t not want to give it up. The club says these are good tenants, they pay them money.

I really don't know what rates they charge and whether these rates are market prices for leases in Moscow, in the centre of Moscow. I have not verified that, but I suspect that the lease of these premises, which, in principle, could be used for sporting purposes, in today's economic climate, perhaps is justified in order to at least partially cover the Defence Ministry's maintenance costs for the entire club.

So we said, okay, if you need to keep the Mercedes dealership there, leave it, but allocate some land for the hockey club. By the way, in order to build or renovate in such a way that others don’t interfere, you need some space. That’s why only... you know, I will be honest with you. Consider that you are sitting in my office at the Government House. The day before yesterday, I thought we discussed everything and the plan was in your hands.

Remark: May I say something?

Vladimir Putin: Of course.

Alexei Zhuk: My name is Alexei Zhuk, I'm a chief tennis coach. Mr Putin, you perhaps know that this problem arose because Viktor Tikhonov was supposed to come on behalf of our hockey club to our traditional and friendly sporting community, and tell us what you have so clearly explained. If so, there would not be this confusion. We got excited after they began talking about 15,000 square meters – the Ice Palace, some sort of business centre… rumours make the world spin. So, we understand it now, and we're holding our parents back. They do worry about our children, but some traditions are being broken in this case: the players of the famous club are taken away by other clubs.

Vladimir Putin: Yes, your club was almost closed down last year. They said the Defence Ministry cannot maintain it.

Alexei Zhuk: We remember how you said that the CSKA is part of our national heritage.

Vladimir Putin: And the Defence Ministry agreed with that, undertook obligations to maintain it and, as you can see, it is keeping its promise. But maintaining it is not enough, it needs to be developed as well!

Remark:  We agree. In fact I benefited from everything – I am happy. Indeed, everything was so unexpected…

Alexei Zhuk: And secretive.

Vladimir Putin: You know there are no secrets.

Alexei Zhuk: But the hockey club…

Vladimir Putin: Probably the club’s management just had to gather everybody and talk about everything. Everything is clear.

Remark: Of course.

Vladimir Putin: There is no security classification; on the contrary, everything is done for the people. Incidentally, a school for children and young people will be operating in this complex which we are going to sanction, finance and repair via Rosneft. That goes without saying.  We will be training young children. I would like to repeat myself: we would like to support our renowned coach Tikhonov, the hockey club, but in no case do we want to cause any harm to the CSKA hockey club, moreover, we would like to do something additionally, for instance, construct a new skating rink for children, a new building, a new medical centre. And if there is a new medical centre for the club (which is not for the professional hockey players, since there is a medical institution for them) it will be a separate medical centre for the rest in the club and will have modern equipment, of course.

Remark: And will the ice palace be reconstructed? Will they ruin it?

Vladimir Putin: You see the club has to decide on this. I think I visited the palace once, a long time ago.

Remark: In 2005.

Vladimir Putin: Yes. I’ve been given the pictures, the pipes, everything is so rusty in there. Listen, we really need to… And we have the ability. Then why shouldn’t we do it in a modern way? Or we can just go on talking: everything is so good abroad, and look how miserable we are. Why miserable? We are able to do everything well.. The question is… I agree with you that we need to avoid any destructions, but this…

Remark: The reason I’m asking: we had a football stadium at Peschyanka. It was functioning, children went there and played games. There’s been a hole for six years straight, it is not even a hole, it is a huge pit, foundation pit with a crane standing there. 

Vladimir Putin: Here is the management of Rosneft, one of the world’s largest oil companies… What is your annual turnover?

Remark: 1.5 trillion.

Vladimir Putin: An annual turnover of 1.5 trillion! How much will it cost approximately?

Remark: Two trillion this year, Mr Putin. We plan to have 2.1 trillion this year.

Vladimir Putin: A prosperous company, one of the world’s best in terms of economic indicators. I don’t know who dug out this foundation pit and who is maintaining it.

Remark: We don’t know. We are doing some things concerning our business there and we do not know… There is a professional basketball club there, with a capacity of about four thousand people. Next year, Euroleague Basketball Games will not be held there under the European regulations: even if, hypothetically, they take part in this championship, games will not be permitted to be held there.  Does it mean that this palace will be renovated and expanded as well? And in terms of this palace, would Rosneft like to…

Vladimir Putin: Those working at Rosneft will hang themselves if I make them maintain the basketball club as well.

Remark: Why?

Vladimir Putin: Because their business is oil. Like the Defence Ministry, which must ensure the country’s security, Rosneft must be dealing with oil. But, in principle, if they make a full-fledged club that is up to modern regulations, the club may become independent at some stage. It can turn into a business, like the NHL. Of course, this is not the most profitable business in the world, but at some stage it may break even. And that’s why when a company like Rosneft agrees to take part… yes, we are ready to do this, but they need to do it in a modern way… But of course this has nothing to do with basketball. 

Again, we proposed that the Defence Ministry and CSKA decide on their own who will be taking direct part and who will be the hockey club’s founder on the part of the Defence Ministry: either the Defence Ministry directly, or CSKA. Let CSKA be the founder. They will have a 20% stake in a very good enterprise, among other things. And if we succeed in making it operate efficiently, then, the “big” CSKA, this is how we will call the functioning club, may eventually gain dividends from the club’s activity.   

Remark: Unfortunately, martial arts, the sport we compete in, are amateur and our teams depend on the budget, and it is difficult for us to understand when the case deals with such money.

Vladimir Putin: Listen, envy is a bad emotion.

Remark: We do not envy.

Vladimir Putin: I have been wrestling all my life and I started out in a basement. We had a pair of wrestling boots for five of us, I understand it only too well. But these are non-commercial kinds of sport. And what can we do? It’s unlikely we would be able to change anything.

Remark: But we can’t kill them off, right?

Vladimir Putin: And who is going to kill them off?

Remark: And who is going to develop them? We have very good reasons to be concerned.

Vladimir Putin: It’s clear that they need to be developed.

Remark: You see, it is not that easy to tear parents away from all the things they have to do. Apart from their jobs, parents, grandmothers, grandfathers fulfil a host of other civic duties. We have cause for concern.

Remark: The Moscow examples are very sad.  

Vladimir Putin: Wait a second, so you are worried that…

Remark: We are very grateful that we were explained everything.

Vladimir Putin: You are worried that this may result in unfavourable consequences?

Remark: Yes, of course. There are such examples.

Vladimir Putin: I understand.

Remark: New sport schools are not opened.

Vladimir Putin: Listen, did I say that you are wrong? I have just said what we are going to do.

Remark: Now everything is crystal clear.

Remark: We were afraid, Mr Putin.

Vladimir Putin: I understand your concerns. That’s why I asked the minister to gather you.

Remark: We are very grateful for that.

Remark: Thank you for responding.

Vladimir Putin: Moreover, the club’s management is present here as well, and if the club holds a stake in the new hockey community, new hockey club, it will take part in deciding how to organise renovations, what result to strive for and how.

It is a pleasure for me to meet with you to explain everything. And we are not going to waive responsibility for anything. But still when the club is established… Eventually, the club should bear responsibility, the Defence Ministry, the company should be partially responsible as well, and they will be working directly with you. And, of course, I am assuming that they will listen to your concerns, and plan accordingly. You will probably agree that… No matter how much I love judo, which I’ve be studying all my life, if there is an opportunity to support competitive sport, which is very popular, why shouldn’t we do it?

Remark: Mr. Putin, you are absolutely right. The concerns are rooted in the fact that the community, in this case parents, are in the dark, there is no cooperation at all. It’s too bad that the prime minister agrees to meet with us within 24 hours, the minister within 12 hours, and the hockey club’s management told us three hours ago that they cannot meet with us today. They seem to have more important things to do…

Vladimir Putin: They must be busy.

Remark: They have a game today.

Remark: The Defence Ministry also does not seem to be very concerned, despite the fact that CSKA is under their management. It is also difficult to blame the club’s management as they are pointing to the Defence Ministry.

Vladimir Putin: Why? The Defence Minister is here at the meeting.

Remark: It would be good to have some sort of interaction, of course.

Vladimir Putin: We can certainly criticise him, but at least he is here.

Remark: In general, there is a law that stipulates that public associations cooperate with the government and the government agencies, and these latter should consider the opinion of the former. So, what you are saying is correct.

Vladimir Putin: You just mentioned the government and the minister and they, indeed, represent government organs. And we do cooperate with you for 12 and more hours a day. Those who do not want to cooperate with you, they are not government organs, but, in fact, something different.

Remark: Can I quote you?

Vladimir Putin: Of course.

Remark: Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Furthermore, you can see here the club manager and the president of Rosneft. It is my understanding that they will be representing the Defence Ministry. Or CSKA? Is that correct, Anatoly?

Anatoly Serdyukov: Yes, we will decide on that.

Vladimir Putin: You will be dealing directly with them. And since both of you are present here, I want to emphasise once again that they should be collaborating with you. And their efforts in developing the hockey component in CSKA should not be to the detriment of other sports. On the contrary, they should help develop them, as well. And I think the creation of a joint medical centre, covering an area of 2,000 metres, and a new ice rink for figure skaters is a direct contribution toward this end. Moreover, once it assumes its role and gets a taste of it, Rosneft may come up with new projects.    

Remark: Seems like we should try to please them.

Coach: Taking the opportunity, since the ministers and you are here, I want to draw your attention to a pressing issue. We wanted to raise it as a separate issue, but since everybody is here…

Vladimir Putin: Is it relevant to the topic of our meeting today?

Coach: It is about the conscription of athletes and the elimination of sports clubs. I have been working at CSKA since 1976, serving like a soldier. I have personally lost to conscription many of my students, junior champions. When conscripted, athletes drop out of their teams and lose their stipends. In a year, after completing their service, they can’t find a job and either enrol in school or end up on the street. It takes no less than two years of trainings for athletes to regain their form. We do not have the resources to maintain them for that period. For us it’s a major problem, and we certainly wish there was a separate category for funding sports in the Defence Ministry’s budget. I am speaking for all coaches. We travelled here together. Chief coaches of all sports get paid three to four times less than a coach at Moscow’s junior sports school.     

Vladimir Putin: They have raised it here.

Remark: On this issue, it appears that we are being placed on the same footing as officers. We would really like this to find a solution of some kind. And most importantly, there is no separate funding for sports in the ministry’s budget. CSKA athletes are the best advertisement for the army, they were its most professional component. If there is any possibility of restoring that, so that we do not lose it, as we spend so much time and resources to get them to that level…      

Vladimir Putin: With regard to conscription, this needs to be discussed, as we have a separate category for the clergy, a separate category for ballet dancers, and many other similar categories. However, I agree with you that despite the difficulties with military recruitment… And we do experience major difficulties with conscription due to demographic problems, and need to ensure that the Armed Forces are fully manned. The Armed Forces guarantee the security of our country. Nevertheless, I don’t think that supporting sports is a burden on the Armed Forces, and I agree with you on this. Furthermore, it is a major advertisement for the Armed Forces. We have had many discussions on this issue with the minister, and overall, there is agreement in the ministry. They are aware of my position. I think they will gradually move in this direction.

Remark: Especially considering that we are members of the International Military Sports Council.

Vladimir Putin: What’s that?

Remark: World championships among militaries.

Remark: It’s an Olympic competition.

Remark: This year the championship took place in Brazil. They were waiting for us but we did not come.

Vladimir Putin: Why? Were you trying to save on them, Mr Serdyukov?

Anatoly Serdyukov: No, there were some other considerations.

Vladimir Putin: What considerations?

Remark: There are no more servicemen left, they have fired them all, and civilians are not allowed to participate.

Vladimir Putin: Is that what you did, you have fired them all?

Anatoly Serdyukov: No, there are servicemen participating. Only military athletes can participate in these competitions.

Vladimir Putin: And you have fired them from the military service?

Remark: That’s what happened in CSKA.

Remark: There were hearings yesterday at the Public Chamber. The Chief of the General Staff showed beautiful slides and talked about cadet schools. Why can’t we get CSKA involved in this? 

Vladimir Putin: I believe the Defence Ministry’s position is that it should support sports in the Armed Forces, but not high performance sports. We have been discussing this issue with them for a long time now. I am personally on your side, and I think that we could support top professional athletes and it would not be too much of a burden for the Defence Ministry. We need to consider this further.   

Remark: Our children’s schools form the backbone of national teams for every age group.

Vladimir Putin: Exactly.

Anatoly Serdyukov: We have approximately 18 pre-college educational institutions, including the cadet schools, the Nakhimov schools, and the Suvorov schools. All the sports facilities at these schools will be transferred to CSKA. Furthermore, we are building major sports complexes at the military units, and they will also be managed by CSKA, meaning that the entire sports component will be under the auspices of CSKA. Therefore, in general, these complexes can also host some of the schools, including the hockey schools. We have reviewed the president’s programme. There is an ice palace there, a pool, and a large track and wrestling complex. The presidential cadet school in Orenburg has nine courts.       

Vladimir Putin: How long will it take to build a new rink for figure skaters?

Vitaly Mutko: It takes eight months to build one.

Anatoly Serdyukov: Eight months may be too fast.

Vladimir Putin: In eight and a half months then.

Anatoly Serdyukov: We’ll start building some time next year.

Remark: No more than eight to nine month. We were very impressed.  

Anatoly Serdyukov: We need to find funding.

Vladimir Putin: We can do that. We need a company that can do the job promptly, it’s not a large project. But when renovations of the large ice stadium start, it will cause some inconveniences, of course, and we need to minimise them. The renovation or the construction of the new arena has to be completed very quickly. It needs to be prescribed in the future contract...

Remark: Quickly and safely.

Vladimir Putin: Naturally. As I said, the inconvenience need to be minimised, and the work should be completed quickly, so that it does not interfere with the athletes’ trainings. 

Remark: I would still disagree that high performance sport is not a mass sport. It is. There are over 5,000 athletes. I suggest that it be treated as such.

Vladimir Putin: This issue requires a separate consideration. We are discussing a different topic today. Still, I must say that, in general, I am on your side. I think it would be the right thing to do. It is not a big expense for the ministry, although, to be fair, it is not exactly its area of responsibility. The ministry’s funding has been continuously cut recently. There has been much debate lately that we have allocated too much for defence, but everything has been accurately calculated. And if we take away some funding from them now, we will be short on a rocket or a submarine.     

Remark: But they admit themselves that they have a shortage of personnel, which is an enormous problem for them. Nobody wants to serve on a contract basis. And CSKA is great PR!  

Vladimir Putin: I agree with you.

Remark: Thank you very much.