Transcript of the beginning of the meeting:

Vladimir Putin: Mr Fursenko, there are currently several programmes underway to create and strengthen federal universities and research centres. We've also developed a programme to support postgraduate research and education in general. As you know, I recently visited the Academy of Sciences. Our support for academic science is effective on the whole, but Academy members expressed concerns that postgraduate science is being set against academic science. In the Soviet Union and in Russia, as you well know, academic science has always received the bulk of resources. And I think that the support for higher educational institutions and postgraduate studies currently provided by your ministry and the government as a whole is justified. It's clear that these two areas should develop consistently, producing a synergy, as it's fashionable to say now, or together produce a good result. They must not be set against each other. My first question is how the ministry plans to carry out its work in these two areas, and also I'd like to hear about the preparations for the launch of the Far Eastern University project.

Andrei Fursenko: As for that synergy, a few years ago you signed a law on the integration of science and education so as to eliminate all artificial barriers to the creation of core departments at academic institutions and academic laboratories at universities. This legislation removed all barriers to the interaction between academic institutions and universities.

More to the point, one third of the members of the commission selecting the national research universities were drawn from among our leading scientists at the Academy of Sciences. They selected which universities to support. One of the qualification criteria was the university's ability to develop a closer relationship with the Academy. It was not by chance that the academic university, which you know very well, headed by Academician Zhores Alferov, was one of the winners. It's a very special university, it does not admit many students, and courses start at MA level. It was one of the winners and was included in this network along with other universities.

This is why I don't think postgraduate science and academic science are set against each other. Although there are some people who like to raise this issue. But really it is very destructive both as an idea, if it were true, and this speculation about it.

Vladimir Putin: I see. So the ministry believes that...

Andrei Fursenko: ...only teamwork can bring practical results. At the same time, it's very important to ensure that higher educational institutions have equal status with academic institutions and that they are strong research centres.

Internal competition is important not only for higher educational institutions but also for the Academy. This competition should be tough but fair, and I'd like to stress that financial support the Academy receives is equal to that received by our universities.

We have reviewed the results of competitions for grants held under the federal targeted programmes; there are almost an equal number of academic institutions and higher educational institutions involved. However, as you know, there are more universities than academic institutions in Russia, and they are more actively involved in federal targeted programmes because some academic institutions are too concerned with their internal funding, and do not consider it necessary to participate in these competitions.

Many academic institutions participate in the competitions held by our funding bodies, the Russian Foundation for Basic Research and the Russian Scientific Fund for Humanities; and most grant recipients are academic institutions. This is why I think the speculation about them being set against each other is contrived. Sometimes this speculation is driven by those who, for whatever reason, lost out in a competition, and sometimes by those who are reluctant to participate because they think they deserve these funds without any such competition. Yes, unfortunately this is sometimes the case. But on the other hand, the strongest academic institutions participate and win.

Vladimir Putin: I spoke with the president of the Academy of Sciences to discuss the Academy's involvement in the creation of the Far Eastern University on Russky Island, which we plan to open after the APEC summit. What progress has been made on this project?

Andrei Fursenko: There's one problem here. We'd like the Academy of Sciences, not the university, to nominate a candidate for president of this university. We even asked the Academy to nominate someone, but scientists don't want to leave their institutions, which is a problem.

Experience shows that higher educational institutions headed by Academy members achieve a great deal. For example, the president of the Siberian Federal University is the renowned and respected Academician Vaganov from the Academy of Sciences. And this is one of the factors that enabled that university to become a leading university on this new model.

Vladimir Putin: We must continue our efforts to staff the future Far Eastern University with good personnel and to develop the underlying concept. Building facilities alone is not enough; we need to consider their intellectual support and content.

Andrei Fursenko: We are very actively involved in the development of that concept. The integration of higher education and academic science in the Far East is unprecedented in Russia. There are a lot of advanced faculties and departments there, due to the lab heads and directors of the academic institutions. These people have very good reputations in the scientific community, and students are eager to follow in their footsteps.

I'm sure you remember meeting some of them. They said that this interaction between higher educational institutions and the Academy is the key to the success of the Academy's branch in the Far East and the high educational standards there. It also proves that the speculation about them being set against each other is contrived and detrimental.

Vladimir Putin: I'm not referring to the issue of them being set against each other. What I mean is that we need to launch the Far Eastern University project. That's what I'd like to discuss with you.

And one more issue. The academic year is over. How well are Russian universities, institutes and other higher schools prepared for the admission of new students?

Andrei Fursenko: There's one problem here. I've already reported to you that the number of high school graduates is falling due to demographic reasons. Universities are competing for every high school graduate, especially those who have done well in their exams.

However, there are several positive trends. More high school graduates are taking unified state exams in computer science, physics and chemistry this year. The number of high school graduates is falling, but the number of those taking unified state exams is rising, demonstrating the effectiveness of the efforts that higher educational institutions and the government are taking to help graduates choose their future profession. They are becoming more interested in science, and in future - the real economy.

This has been a sizeable increase. The number of young people taking exams in chemistry has grown by 30%, and in computer science by 20%. And higher educational institutions are concerned. I would say that high school graduates are also concerned, but that the higher educational institutions are even more concerned. They are wondering how many good new students they'll be able to attract. I know that there's been a lot of careers advice given; it is being well promoted, and young people are offered help in choosing a future profession. But we need this work to be systematic. Today the Russian Rectors' Union and leading higher educational institutions, including research institutes and federal universities, are interacting more actively with secondary schools or high schools.

And one can see the practical effects of this work. More young people are involved in science and the high-tech sector. But given the demographic situation this is not enough. And we'd like to propose an initiative to retrain adults and employ them in the new innovative economy.

Vladimir Putin: We could thus employ university teachers and professors...

Andrei Fursenko: Yes, it's very important because it'll create new jobs, interesting jobs... If you support this initiative, I'd like you to instruct our ministry, the Ministry of Economic Development and the Ministry of Finance to develop this programme and submit it to the government. We already attempted to implement the comprehensive modernisation of general schools as part of the national projects. I'm sure you remember those modernisation projects. And as I see it, today this programme should involve the regions. It's very important that they should be involved in the reform and modernisation of education.

Vladimir Putin: Good, prepare your proposals please.