Transcript:
Artyom Avetisyan (Chairman of the Leaders’ Club): Good afternoon, Mr Medvedev. Thank you for taking time to participate in our meeting. Today, we will continue to discuss the road maps and the National Business Initiative. We have specific proposals that we would like to discuss with you.
Dmitry Medvedev: Let's discuss them. First, I would like to hear the proposals. If you could briefly describe them to me, I will comment on them. Please go ahead.
Vyacheslav Fomin: My name is Vyacheslav Fomin. I represent the Stroymonolit company. Good afternoon, Mr Medvedev and Mr Avetisyan. First of all, I want to thank the Government you represent, Mr Medvedev, for supporting the National Business Initiative. Today, we can confidently say that we finally have clear and transparent business tools that can be used to improve the situation in our country and take key decisions. Importantly, businesses are actively involved in developing and monitoring road maps. As a deputy head of the working group to develop a road map on Improving Small and Medium-Sized Businesses’ Access to Procurement by Infrastructure Monopolies and State-Owned Companies. I can see this happening in real life, and I’m part of this process. There are a number of points that I think need to be discussed. Colleagues, you are all perfectly aware of how road maps are being designed, you all participate in this. The particular feature of this is that it is conducted on the SIA platform, after which the map goes to the Ministry of Economic Development. The Ministry approves it and hands it over to the Government of the Russian Federation, and on its way the road map goes through amazing transformations. That is, when the road map reaches you, Mr Medvedev, it is completely different from what the working group had in mind.
Dmitry Medvedev: The map is different from the true geography that exists there, right?
Vyacheslav Fomin: Yes. As an example, I have recently seen that the wording of the road map on Improving Small and Medium-Sized Businesses’ Access to State Procurement is radically different from what I personally wrote there.
Dmitry Medvedev: I have a proposal. Either we plunge into the discussion of specific discrepancies with the variant you submitted, or you can just prepare a summary of what has not been included in the road map and what, in your opinion, should definitely be there. Because I have already said during our meetings on these road maps that they are not dogmas, but a guide to action. If you do not like something, let us change it – because it is made for you, not for the Prime Minister to tick some box, enforce the map and say “Everything is okay with us, businesses are fine, they have taken part in making the road maps and everyone is happy.” I don’t know what you are speaking about because you have not given any detail. But let's consider the issues of working with customs: we were discussing the customs operations and the efficiency of that road map. And a number of problems emerged even with that very road map, so I issued an instruction to change it. The same is true when it comes to small and medium-sized businesses, whatever. But for us to be more or less technological, I’ve got a suggestion, and I am addressing both you and our other colleagues who worked on road map projects: sum up your ideas regarding the efficiency of those road maps. We shall discuss them at the SIA (Strategic Initiatives Agency) platform, we will then discuss them once again with experts, with your participation, if necessary. After that the Ministry of Economic Development will present me with a consolidated variant. We can meet directly without the mediation of the Ministry of Economic Development, but only to discuss some specific vital topics.
Vyacheslav Fomin: Yes, of course, that would be good. I have a particular proposal regarding this – in fact, this is what I was saying. The business community also wants to share in the responsibility for these road maps, not just participate in developing them. We suggest that working groups set up on the SIA platform should be part of the Government procedure when these road maps are being discussed, and the Government should be aware of what the business community thinks of them before they are approved. This will eliminate the risks of failing to attain the expected result.
Dmitry Medvedev: I absolutely agree with you. I presumed that the road maps that come to me for approval from the Government Executive Office, and before that from the Ministry of Economic Development, meet at least 80% of your expectations. If you say that they have turned everything upside down and that nothing meets the expectations of a business, this is a reason to have a large-scale meeting and review all those road maps. I just don’t know how urgent it is for all the road maps. Maybe this just applies to some specific areas?
Vyacheslav Fomin: I cannot speak for everyone, Mr Medvedev, but I'd like to ask you to support our initiative and simply to include us. Issue an instruction to the Executive Office to include us as participants and then we will deal with all the questions. That’s about it.
Dmitry Medvedev: Who exactly should be included?
Vyacheslav Fomin: Business representatives - members of the group on developing a road map. To date, business representatives take part in working groups that elaborate roadmaps, which are subsequently implemented by someone else. What I mean is that businesses want to contribute to all stages of these projects.
Dmitry Medvedev: Well now, I don’t think it would be efficient for business people to go around the Government’s Executive Office, coordinating signatures and the like. It would not be right or rational from a technological standpoint, and so no one will agree to do this. I want you to certify that the roadmap more or less corresponds to your expectations before submitting it to the Executive Office. I would take this as sufficient evidence that the given roadmap should be approved or rejected because of some changes in the process.
Let’s do it this way. Agreed?
Please, colleagues, who’s next?
Mikhail Rozenfeld (CEO of Novotrans Yug, a part of the group of logistic companies Brazis, Krasnodar Territory): Mr Medvedev, Mr Avetisyan, colleagues. My name is Mikhail Rozenfeld. I work in the field of transport logistics and customs services in Novorossiysk, the Krasnodar Territory. I am involved in the working group that is monitoring the roadmap to improve customs management. It is a complicated roadmap.
Dmitry Medvedev: Yes, it is.
Mikhail Rozenfeld: I agree that businesses not only monitor [the implementation of roadmaps] but also initiate objective feedback for the authorities to encourage them to take the necessary action. Furthermore, our objective is not to criticise or to hunt down the people guilty of failing to implement something, rather our aim is to search for constructive solutions, including jointly [with the authorities]. Although this is a complicated roadmap, I can point to some positive elements. One of them, as has been said here, is a visit by senior officials of the Leaders' Club, the Federal Customs Service and the Ministry of Economic Development, as well as by members of the working group, at the initiative of the FCS and the Leaders' Club, to the customs stations where this procedure is being implemented. Personally, I have to do this on an almost daily basis, but many other participants of this…
Dmitry Medvedev: Mikhail, can you tell us if it was a surprise visit or the customs stations were expecting it?
Mikhail Rozenfeld: They were waiting for us…
Dmitry Medvedev: They were?
Mikhail Rozenfeld: Yes, they were expecting us to come, because customs are part of the government structure and so visits to them should be planned. This is normal. Yet I did not see any elements of window dressing.
Dmitry Medvedev: No window dressing?
Mikhail Rozenfeld: No, not much.
Dmitry Medvedev: So they have smart bosses. They ordered the grass to be cut, but not too short, is that right?
Mikhail Rozenfeld: The main goal was to let the visitors, including representatives of government control agencies, see how things are done in practice, to see the working conditions of the customs employees and their technical infrastructure and software. We have seen that only the cooperation of all government control agencies that are directly involved in this procedure can produce a positive result.
Dmitry Medvedev: Let’s do it this way. There are many of you here, and I will have to go soon, so just tell me, are the customs people listening to you? Customs is a really complex system with law-enforcement elements. Have you managed to develop a dialogue with them within the framework of this roadmap?
Mikhail Rozenfeld: You know, customs have turned now and they are open…
Dmitry Medvedev: Where have they turned?
Mikhail Rozenfeld: They have turned to face us.
Dmitry Medvedev: And is it a good face?
Mikhail Rozenfeld: In fact, it’s an open face…
Dmitry Medvedev: Glad to hear it.
Mikhail Rozenfeld: And all these events have been instigated at the initiative of both the Leaders' Club and customs leaders.
But there is one thing that has become systemic, and so I have a favour to ask from you or a proposal for you. Some provisions of this roadmap have reached their deadline, they have been implemented. Yes, the opinion of business is very important, even though customs protects the state, but still, the opinion of business is important. There is a marvellous instrument, the Agency for Strategic Initiatives, which conducts monthly monitoring of the implemented and the planned provisions of this roadmap. This is a time-consuming process, and it is done every month, on the 10th of every month, I think... By that time, the events specified within this roadmap could be approved by Government resolutions. As a result, we have a situation that was aptly described in the movie called “The 9th Company” – The war is over, but we are still fighting. In other words, we are waiting for the opinion of business, even though everything has already been decided. Look at Clause 39, which is a good example: “The establishment, liquidation and reorganisation of customs stations and departments.” Here is what I propose: maybe we should not run after the train? Maybe the Government should wait for the business assessment and only then approve the list of activities in the roadmap?
Dmitry Medvedev: This is in fact what we are doing today, and we also work in other formats. I believe that the expert opinion expressed by business people should be used as the basis for approving or rejecting a roadmap. But I also have a question for you. Have you developed the right kind of relations with the ASI and the Ministry of Economic Development? If they don’t listen to what you are saying, if the proposals which they bring to me are not what you suggest, then I have an unpleasant question to colleagues from the Ministry of Economic Development, because my conclusion would be that they aren't bringing your opinion to me. I could hold meetings with business people on every roadmap, but it would hardly be efficient for the prime minister to hold expert briefings on all these documents. This cannot be described as an optimal use of potential. Still, we should trust our colleagues from the Ministry of Economic Development. But if you feel that they are failing to mention something, as your colleague has said, then we could hold target-oriented meetings.
Mikhail Rozenfeld: I believe that we have good communication with the Agency for Strategic Initiatives and the Ministry of Economic Development. I have attended all these events. The trouble is that it looks as if the procedure is finished in the government system before business can form its opinion. In other words, there is a time limit.
Then I think that you should have this right. I am ready to relay this to both the Strategic Initiatives Agency and the Minister of Economic Development. We will simply stop the movement and say: “Let’s discuss this for a longer while. We believe that this issue is very complicated.” I am saying it again so that you know: this is being done for your benefit, there is no rush. Let’s discuss this for another two weeks or a month. It would have my support in this case.
Remark: Thank you very much.
Dmitry Medvedev: Then it’s settled.
Dmitry Volkov (Director General, SU-33 company): I am Dmitry Volkov of the company SU-33. We do engineering surveys plus construction and design work. We are the toilers you’ve referred to and toiling is all we know how to do.
I am on the working group that monitors the construction roadmap, which has already been approved. We began monitoring it in October and we have provided expert assessments for all draft laws and all items on the roadmap. Regrettably, only four of these assessments are positive, while the rest are negative. I repeat, these are assessments of experts on the working group. Both the working group and the Ministry of Economic Development have come to the conclusion that the roadmaps have to be revised. My colleagues here have explained why this is so. I agree that there are some communication problems that should be fixed with organisational measures, among other things. We certainly cannot complain of a lack of attention to the roadmaps or to our proposals. I am referring precisely to organisational matters. I know it is against protocol to approach the Government’s administrative staff with these proposals. But they concern complex matters. For example, experts worked hard on point 18 and point 3 of the construction roadmap and these points envisage tectonic changes. We analyse every draft law in order to understand what has been built into it and to respond accordingly. Occasionally we cannot reach full mutual understanding and have to meet more. This is my first point.
Second, we know that the Government held a meeting on the roadmaps in December. Could you consider including members of the Leaders’ Club in Government meetings in order to bring across to the decision-makers what is the final opinion for a certain period?
Dmitry Medvedev: Thank you, Dmitry.
Colleagues, I have written down some things that have been said here and I will try to translate this into instructions right away. First, I think that a system of communication has been established between business leaders and heads of the relevant government agencies. This is very good because there was no such communication just a couple of years ago. Not that people were worse than they are now; we just were not concerned with this kind of communication.
Second, we need communication not because we simply wish to talk to a pleasant person or have a cup of tea together but because we would like to make life easier for ourselves and work easier for them, or vice versa. The monitoring function is extremely important, of course. I would like to repeat that the roadmaps must be adjusted if you as leaders of the business initiative and the government agencies feel that something does not work. Never feel shy about this. Of course, you should not pester the agencies with trifles like a misplaced comma and the like. Wait until you accumulate a number of proposals and then have them translated into a decision. The Government is ready for this.
I know that a project submitted to the Government’s administrative staff gets changed on its way out. I will issue instructions on this subject.
Regarding delays in implementing the roadmap or on certain points, let’s leave it like this: if experts in some area or other come to the conclusion that work should be suspended, we will approve a decision to stop the work and hold an additional expert discussion, and then we will come back to the issue in two or four weeks time.
Finally, let’s discuss your last proposal. I think this is a reasonable idea to invite business representatives responsible for drafting roadmaps to a Government meeting convened in order to approve this or that roadmap. So, I am inviting you, but I would like to say this. The roadmap that makes it to a Government meeting should be coordinated across the board because otherwise it makes no sense to meet. If you simply want to come and say, “Guys, this meeting is pointless, the roadmap is a disaster,” I do not think this is the right thing to do. So, I am inviting you, but the roadmap, if it is being considered, should have been okayed by the entire expert community and yourself, and submitted to the Ministry of Economic Development.
Good luck at the forum. The proposals to adjust the National Business Initiative and proposals regarding individual roadmaps will be considered by the Ministry of Economic Development, the Strategic Initiatives Agency and eventually by me. Thank you for your time.